More good news for Killington skiers.

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Actually, I think I read somewhere KBL is going to be closed midweek non-holiday

You can still park there right? Shouldn't this thread read bad news???

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

Duh I have no empathy for condo owners..they can drive to the KBL on weekdays..

How would you feel as you watched the value of your ski on, ski out condo plummet when it became ski in, ski out only on weekends? (THat would be a double kick in the junk if you were also a lifetime pass holder).

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

How would you feel as you watched the value of your ski on, ski out condo plummet when it became ski in, ski out only on weekends? (THat would be a double kick in the junk if you were also a lifetime pass holder).

Yeah but if you can afford a ski/ski out condo..then you're not exactly hurting financially...

 

[threecy]

That is not a midweek trail, so on a Wednesday 100% of midweek trails will be open.;-)

Its all in how it is worded.

I should have been more specific - the actual trail count too...I wonder if they'll try to claim 200 or whatever they say they have now...esp. with Pico being closed on select days.

 

[threecy]

How would you feel as you watched the value of your ski on, ski out condo plummet when it became ski in, ski out only on weekends? (THat would be a double kick in the junk if you were also a lifetime pass holder).

Killington is a private business. Anyone who buys real estate which has value dependent upon private business is taking a risk.

Could be worse - they could have been owners on Timber Ridge, Tenney, or Haystack.

 

[Newpylong]

I'm again go against the mainstream and say let's wait and see how it works out. I have used Stage 1 midweek - it's a savior on really cold days. That said, the terrain there is not Killington's best. There's more than enough beginner terrain throughout the rest of the mountain with no crowds midweek.

I do not anticipate skiing Killington anytime soon, but having Stage 1 closed would not be a factor in my decision unless it was brutally cold and windy.

No one skies down there because it is beginner terrain. People use Skyeship base as just that, a base lodge. Also, there are the tons of condos down there. Pretty soon its only going to be K-1 midweek. Oh wait, there lodge isn't even open there midweek.

This company blows my mind.

 

[riverc0il]

a) You buy real estate, you take on a risk. If there's a signed contract somewhere stating K-Mart has to keep it running 7 days a week, that's another issue. It stinks for those condo owners, sure. Could be worse - they could remove Stage 1 (and truncate the area like they did with Sunrise).

I doubt it impacts their statement on vertical drop - Waterville doesn't have to adjust when High Country is closed. Heck, I think Saddleback advertises above lift serve in some places.

I don't think SP/Powdr are doing this to be evil. I think they see logic in it and deserve to at least give it a try (after all, it is their ski area).

Well stated on all points (though I would like to see stats on the Saddleback claim). Sometimes investments loose money. Past performance is not guarantee of future results and all that. Worst part? Bad time to be selling a home and with the ill will there may be a flood of condos going up for sale. Hey, that's life, it sucks sometimes. But when you by condos at a ski area, you are taking a gamble. I can understand Killington's desire to reduce expenses. I suspect the calculated gamble here is the reduced revenue will be less than the recouped expenses they are no longer using to run facilities that are under utilized during certain times of the year.

Sucks? Yea, it sure does. The problem here is the same problem Killington has had on these forums for the past five years... and that is the modern Killington is no longer the old Killington. Things are changing and people are looking backwards while the management is taking the place in a different direction. It is clear to me that the new management means business about making Killington a profitable resort. What remains to be seen is if they can keep, develop, and retain the customer base to generate enough income to make it profitable after they piss off the old customer base. Time will tell.

 

[Greg]

Duh I have no empathy for condo owners..they can drive to the KBL on weekdays..

You are soooo disconnected from anything that doesn't specifically affect you. Not a great attribute. :roll:

I'm not saying there should be any level of hand-holding here; as was stated already anyone buying real estate takes a risk, but this negative effect on property values is a direct result of what Killington did. That just kinda sucks. After all, these condo owners add to the bed base of the resort so it's in Killington's best interest to maintain their value and desirability. Short-sightedness.

 

[threecy]

Well stated on all points (though I would like to see stats on the Saddleback claim).

Well, for instance, they advertise 2k vertical on SnoCountry - even though the top T-Bar terminates a few hundred vertical below the summit ridge.

 

[deadheadskier]

You are soooo disconnected from anything that doesn't specifically affect you. Not a great attribute. :roll:

.

couldn't agree more. As I've stated before GSS, I would classify you as someone who has borderline narcissistic personality disorder. You look at EVERYTHING only as it pertains to you.

Simple question steeze, do you have any brothers or sisters?

 

[deadheadskier]

Back on track with the original topic. I simply think Killington is going too far with the expense cutting. If I were a long time Killington skier, Powder's choices would completely alienate me. I fully understand controlling expenses, but an actually not so wise man, once told me a wise thing. You don't deposit percentages in the bank, you deposit dollars. Incrimental income is everyting in this business. By making these condos less desirable to rent or buy, not only are you reducing the number of lift tickets sold, but also the incrimental income these potential customers are going to spend on other services.

Heck, I would think closing Stage 2 of the Skyeship to be a better decision than Stage 1. You'd save the same amount of money, wouldn't alienate home owners and wouldn't reduce the amount of terrain available as their are other lifts in that region that would compensate for the stage 2 closure. That is the right decision if you ask me.

 

[threecy]

Heck, I would think closing Stage 2 of the Skyeship to be a better decision than Stage 1. You'd save the same amount of money, wouldn't alienate home owners and wouldn't reduce the amount of terrain available as their are other lifts in that region that would compensate for the stage 2 closure. That is the right decision if you ask me.

My observation is that Stage 2 carries a lot more skiers than Stage 1 midweek, and its trails do too.

Part of the reason to close Stage 1 *is* to reduce terrain open - it costs a lot of money to groom every night!

 

[threecy]

Back on track with the original topic. I simply think Killington is going too far with the expense cutting. If I were a long time Killington skier, Powder's choices would completely alienate me. I fully understand controlling expenses, but an actually not so wise man, once told me a wise thing. You don't deposit percentages in the bank, you deposit dollars. Incrimental income is everyting in this business. By making these condos less desirable to rent or buy, not only are you reducing the number of lift tickets sold, but also the incrimental income these potential customers are going to spend on other services.

Here's a hypothetical - KMart saves big money by closing the excess during slow times. Environmental impact aside (the amount of energy Powdr will be saving by closing Stage 1 and not grooming it will be the equivalent of taking a bunch of cars off the road and/or having a bunch of houses not use power), what if they took this savings and invested it in coming years in sizable on mountain improvements. If that happens, I think you'll see them get some praise. Will they do this? Who knows. Keep an open mind though.

 

[deadheadskier]

My observation is that Stage 2 carries a lot more skiers than Stage 1 midweek, and its trails do too.

Part of the reason to close Stage 1 *is* to reduce terrain open - it costs a lot of money to groom every night!

No doubt Stage 2 carries more skiers midweek, but probably still not a huge amount of traffic. The thing is you can access all the same terrain that Stage 2 provides via the Skye Peak Quad, Superstar Quad and Needles Eye Express, which I'm going to assume would all be running. My point might be mute if they close the Needles Eye.

As far as reducing open terrain, I really don't think that terrain receives enough traffic that you would need to groom it every two night midweek nevermind every night.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

couldn't agree more. As I've stated before GSS, I would classify you as someone who has borderline narcissistic personality disorder. You look at EVERYTHING only as it pertains to you.

Simple question steeze, do you have any brothers or sisters?

I have a younger sister who just got married...

I'm very generous with my friends and family..and my customers think I'm a good guy...but if I made a poor investment, I wouldn't expect complete strangers to feel bad for me.

 

[deadheadskier]

If that happens, I think you'll see them get some praise.

Perhaps, but definitely not the home owners and the locals to the south and east who use the Stage 1.

I really don't see any sizable on mountain improvements that can be made at Killington outside of amenities, such as new day lodges. Terrain expansion is pretty much tapped out. Sure, they could replace a lift or two with High Speed options, but that would only exasparate the problem of over crowded trails that they already have.

I guess I'm just sharing my thoughts and observations. The reality is, I don't care what Killington does as I do not ski there and have no intentions of skiing there outside of Pico. I do feel for the home owners though whose wallets are directly affected by this decision. I hear what others have said in that any real estate acquisition is a gamble with no guarantees, but the fact is that their are ways to minimize costs without affecting these long time supporters and have pointed those out here.

 

[deadheadskier]

I have a younger sister who just got married...

I'm very generous with my friends and family..and my customers think I'm a good guy...but if I made a poor investment, I wouldn't expect complete strangers to feel bad for me.

congrats for your sister

I don't doubt your genorosity. I'm just making a point and Greg made the same, that you almost always only look and express your feelings as it relates to you. Not a good attribute.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

congrats for your sister

I don't doubt your genorosity. I'm just making a point and Greg made the same, that you almost always only look and express your feelings as it relates to you. Not a good attribute.

Sorry that's just the way I am...I'm sure one day if I have a wife/kids I'll be less of a Narcissist..but as a single guy who lives alone I'm looking out for myself..

 

[threecy]

No doubt Stage 2 carries more skiers midweek, but probably still not a huge amount of traffic. The thing is you can access all the same terrain that Stage 2 provides via the Skye Peak Quad, Superstar Quad and Needles Eye Express, which I'm going to assume would all be running. My point might be mute if they close the Needles Eye.

I wouldn't be surprised if both the Skye Peak and Needles Eye are closed.

As far as reducing open terrain, I really don't think that terrain receives enough traffic that you would need to groom it every two night midweek nevermind every night.

It's been freshly groomed each time I've skied it. Its hard to get away with not grooming man made snow during mid winter.

 

[millerm277]

My observation is that Stage 2 carries a lot more skiers than Stage 1 midweek, and its trails do too.

That would probably be correct, but Stage 1 still gets an amount of traffic that would make it worth keeping open in my opinion, and GE is also heavily used by the lessons, as it provides a nice, easy, long run for the instructors to teach on.

Part of the reason to close Stage 1 *is* to reduce terrain open - it costs a lot of money to groom every night!

Running a groomer on the lower section of GE every night can't cost that much money, especially considering the amount of terrain on the rest of the mountain that they groom each night, Lower GE would be less than 5%. (Home Stretch isn't groomed often, and Valley Plunge (if it were to be open), Touchdown, and Lower Juggernaut are almost never groomed).

I wouldn't be surprised if both the Skye Peak and Needles Eye are closed.

I don't think they could close the Skye Peak Quad midweek, even if they wanted to, because of the agreement with the Sunrise condo owners. I would actually think closing the Superstar Quad midweek would be a better idea than closing Skyeship Stage I, as the terrain is already accessible from Skyeship Stage II, and K1, and with the water slide being gone, it shouldn't be as hard to get back to the K1 anymore.