MRG - What about snowboarders?

[Greg]

I'm not like most people... I was a pretty decent skier back in the day(80's-90's) - skied Alta and MRG... kinda pictured myself as a Scott Schmit kinda extreme skier with the K2 TNCs or Extremes.....

D - you gotta repost that pic of you from Hunter in the 80's where your leg/knee is doing that funky shit and you have that big smile on your face. That pic is classic! :lol:

 

[dmc]

D - you gotta repost that pic of you from Hunter in the 80's where your leg/knee is doing that funky shit and you have that big smile on your face. That pic is classic! :lol:

We didn't take skiing as seriuosly then as people do now...

 

[Greg]

We didn't take skiing as seriuosly then as people do now...

Come on - you gotta post it. That pic is hilarious!

 

[Skibum_dan]

Tricky topic eh?
It's too bad that you can make all the sense in the world and it still won't matter. It really is too bad. I'm not being sarcastic. You can make the most rational argument there is for why everyone should be able to go down the hill assuming their respectful, regardless of what they have on their feet, but that it won't matter because share holders control the policy. It's too bad that money talks and rational thought can't because some old crusties can't let go of their romanticized view of yesteryear.
If there was something intrinsically inferior about snowboarding, something that made snowboarding completely unsafe for everyone on the mountain, it would be a different story. But as people have mentioned before, it is entirely up to the individual. There are irresponsible skiers and riders. I personally think that anyone should be able to enjoy their ride down the hill assuming they are respecting the fact that they are using a common playground. I ski/tele-ski but have many respectful rider friends. It's doubtful that MRG would get an influx of the kind of riders the old crusties would be scared of. They'd see a handful of powder hounds. But it comes back to the share holder thing....
It was mentioned plenty of times that we are simply grinding our gears at this point. So, what do you do? How do bring it from something that will perpetually generate the same back-and-forth into something where you may actually be able to ride MRG?
Would leading by example work? For the riders out there...maybe go up to MRG some day with the largest group of respectful boarders as possible, hike up and ride down. Do it often enough, do it respectfully, be diplomatic about it and maybe you'll gain some recognition by some open minded share-holders. (Are there any?)
I don't know how much it costs to be a share holder but maybe if the riders out there rallied enough support from other riders you could at least buy enough shares as a collective organization to have some voting power....
In the mean time, if you're out on the hill, wherever it may be, just remember that there are responsible/respectful people....and there are crazy people with a lotta balls but no skill....both ends of the spectrum appear on all sorts of contraptions.

 

[bvibert]

I don't know how much it costs to be a share holder but maybe if the riders out there rallied enough support from other riders you could at least buy enough shares as a collective organization to have some voting power....

The price is $1750 per share and each individual is allowed to own a maximum of 4 shares. Each shareholder is required to spend an "Annual Purchase Requirement" every year, which has been $200 but can go up with inflation.

http://madriverglen.com/coop/?Page=./3faq.htm&dir=.

 

[Greg]

It's too bad that money talks and rational thought can't because some old crusties can't let go of their romanticized view of yesteryear.

I do not believe the snowboard ban is at all monetarily influenced. Quite the opposite, I think. Many would argue that disallowing a large percentage of available snow-sliders (snowboards) is not a good financial move. With that said, I do respect the decision of the shareholders to maintain whatever it is they like about MRG. And as shareholders it's their right to do so.

I thought I wasn't going to add anything else here... :blink:, but here goes:

Probably the most common argument against snowboards is snow preservation. A lot of opponents of the ban say that a beginner or intermediate skier scrapes just as much snow off the trail as a beginner or intermediate skier. I just don't buy that. I've often times seen a beginner on a board kick it sideway and just scrape down a steep trail. You simply can't do that on skis, and I don't believe holding a wedge on skis would cause as much damage to the snow surface. That's just my opinion based on observation though.

But let me play devil's advocate. Say that only advanced or expert riders ended up at MRG. Would the surface on the open trails be any different? Would the bumps lines be shaped differently? I would think that lines through the trees wouldn't change much, but I would have to imagine the bumps would suffer. No? I'm not trying to debate whether the ban is moral or not, whether it could be classified as discrimination or not, or any of that. What I'm trying to do is see if there might be some validity to the argument that the ban is at least partially based on snow surface preservation.

 

[JimG.]

Probably the most common argument against snowboards is snow preservation. A lot of opponents of the ban say that a beginner or intermediate skier scrapes just as much snow off the trail as a beginner or intermediate skier. I just don't buy that. I've often times seen a beginner on a board kick it sideway and just scrape down a steep trail. You simply can't do that on skis, and I don't believe holding a wedge on skis would cause as much damage to the snow surface. That's just my opinion based on observation though.

But let me play devil's advocate. Say that only advanced or expert riders ended up at MRG. Would the surface on the open trails be any different? Would the bumps lines be shaped differently? I would think that lines through the trees wouldn't change much, but I would have to imagine the bumps would suffer. No? I'm not trying to debate whether the ban is moral or not, whether it could be classified as discrimination or not, or any of that. What I'm trying to do is see if there might be some validity to the argument that the ban is at least partially based on snow surface preservation.

Paragraph 1: Just not true. I've seen plenty of sideways action on skis as well as snowboards, and anyway that power wedge you describe is akin to driving a snowplow down the hill with the plow down.

Paragraph 2: Good skiers make good bump lines; same for snowboards.

Bad skiers make bad bump lines; same for snowboards.

This snow preservation argument does not hold water.

 

[dmc]

But let me play devil's advocate. Say that only advanced or expert riders ended up at MRG. Would the surface on the open trails be any different? Would the bumps lines be shaped differently? I would think that lines through the trees wouldn't change much, but I would have to imagine the bumps would suffer. No? I'm not trying to debate whether the ban is moral or not, whether it could be classified as discrimination or not, or any of that. What I'm trying to do is see if there might be some validity to the argument that the ban is at least partially based on snow surface preservation.

From what i've seen at MRG... Remember I tele there every year...

I've been on scraped off trails and no snowboarders in sight...
I've also gotten hit by skiers there too...

This "expert" rider will not involve himself with bumps at MRG... MRG is not a place I'd go to for bumps... I'd be in the woods the entire time...

 

[Greg]

Paragraph 1: Just not true. I've seen plenty of sideways action on skis as well as snowboards, and anyway that power wedge you describe is akin to driving a snowplow down the hill with the plow down.

So your feeling is a wedge on skis (maybe 45 degree to the fall line) is as distruptive to the surface as a constant scrape completely perpendicular to the fall line? I'm not a physics guy, but that doesn't seem to make sense to me. And again, based on my observations, a snowboarder scraping down a run pushes a lot more snow down the slope than does a skier in a wedge where the snow seems more evenly distributed as they descend.

Paragraph 2: Good skiers make good bump lines; same for snowboards.

Bad skiers make bad bump lines; same for snowboards.

That wasn't my question. If snowboards were allowed at MRG, would the lines change at all?

This snow preservation argument does not hold water.

I still think there is at least some validity to it.

 

[MarkC]

How many beginner and intermediate skiers frequent MRG? From my recollection of when I was a skier there are not many. If the ban were to be lifted you could expect the same from snowboarders. Granted you are going to get a few "Hey Vinny I'm doin it" a@s holes but for the most part you would get advanced riders looking to enjoy the trees and fresh natural. My vision of MRG is a mecca for advanced snow sliders who prefer the old school. It shouldn't matter what your feet are strapped to as long as you feel your mind and worship the snow gods.

 

[Greg]

I've been on scraped off trails and no snowboarders in sight...

Fair enough.

I've also gotten hit by skiers there too...

I'm not making any point to the contrary.

This "expert" rider will not involve himself with bumps at MRG... MRG is not a place I'd go to for bumps... I'd be in the woods the entire time...

I see your point, but there would inherently be a lot of boarders on the open runs if allowed.

 

[dmc]

So your feeling is a wedge on skis (maybe 45 degree to the fall line) is as distruptive to the surface as a constant scrape completely perpendicular to the fall line? I'm not a physics guy, but that doesn't seem to make sense to me. And again, based on my observations, a snowboarder scraping down a run pushes a lot more snow down the slope than does a skier in a wedge where the snow seems more evenly distributed as they descend.

Bad skiers also scrape snow with skis parallel but across the falline - especially on harder terrain...... Skis are longer then snowboards and also have two edges involved in the scraping process... First edge scrapes the surface second edge digs deeper... And skis edge MUCH better the snowboard... So more power is sent to the "scrape"....

As shonw at MRG where I've encounter scraped off snow...

 

[Greg]

How many beginner and intermediate skiers frequent MRG? From my recollection of when I was a skier there are not many. If the ban were to be lifted you could expect the same from snowboarders.

I will give you that. You're probably right.

Welcome to AZ!

 

[dmc]

I see your point, but there would inherently be a lot of boarders on the open runs if allowed.

but they won't bug you... Cause you'll be in the trees... Let the beginners scrape their way down the trails.. MRG is for woods and rocks and cliffs and waterfalls...

i think if MRG did open to riders there would be an initial rush to go and then riders would realize that it takes certain skillz to enjoy MRG and they just don't have them..
And then it would mellow out...

 

[Skibum_dan]

Ha. "Hey Vinny!"......I love it.

I hear ya Mark.

 

[Greg]

Bad skiers also scrape snow with skis parallel but across the falline - especially on harder terrain...... Skis are longer then snowboards and also have two edges involved in the scraping process... First edge scrapes the surface second edge digs deeper... And skis edge MUCH better the snowboard... So more power is sent to the "scrape"....

As shonw at MRG where I've encounter scraped off snow...

Good points. I think those cases of skiers going perpendicular to the fall line probably happens most often with lower intermediates. Those that are beyond a wedge, but haven't gotten consistent turning on steeper stuff down yet.

Again, good arguments and a good discussion.
:beer:

 

[dmc]

I'm not making any point to the contrary.

Just pointing out that the very things that snowboarders constantly get accused of doing actually happens at MRG...

i tend to think that intermediates like to blame SOMETHING for their lack of skillz and having a crappy day.. So they take the easiest and most popular attack to save face....
it's the machismo of the sport...

 

[dmc]

Good points. I think those cases of skiers going perpendicular to the fall line probably happens most often with lower intermediates. Those that are beyond a wedge, but haven't gotten consistent turning on steeper stuff down yet.

Again, good arguments and a good discussion.
:beer:

It's called sideslipping... And intermediates(riders and skiers) will fall back on it when in a jam. It really pisses us off at Tuckermans... Cause all kinda problems on steep terrain...

 

[Greg]

but they won't bug you... Cause you'll be in the trees... Let the beginners scrape their way down the trails.. MRG is for woods and rocks and cliffs and waterfalls...

I'm actually not big tree skier yet. I dabble, but I really want to hone my bumping skills first. I expect more tree runs this season though.

 

[tree_skier]

go away for aday and i miss 16 pages of ---- where did I put that dead horse.

Anyways what I want to know is why I can't ride my goped on the streets of vermont? I pay my taxes (far too many taxes) it's discrimination I say.