MRG - What about snowboarders?

[dmc]

My vision of MRG is a mecca for advanced snow sliders who prefer the old school. It shouldn't matter what your feet are strapped to as long as you feel your mind and worship the snow gods.

The terrain there will weed out the gapers...

 

[dmc]

go away for aday and i miss 16 pages of ---- where did I put that dead horse.

So just ignore it... wtf?

why do people get so "Beat a dead horse" about this issue...??

I think this has been a great thread...

 

[David Metsky]

I don't think the "boarders will scrape off all the snow" argument holds any water, but I also don't think it's a factor in the ban. It's cited by some, but not most of the shareholders who like things the way they are. That may have been involved in starting the ban but it is not what is perpetuating it.

IMO, there isn't a rational snow quality basis for the ban, it's all gut feel, the desire to be different, and hold onto a feeling. Part of what makes MRG possible in the current economic world is the fierce loyalty to the place by people willing to put their money in play, year after year. Any change that would cause people to lose that loyalty would kill the place. For better or worse, many shareholders hold on to that feeling.

If MRG was like every other ski area in VT it would go out of business. In order to differentiate it from the others they do things differently. That includes slow lifts, no snowmaking, minimal grooming, and, yes, no snowboards. You could make good logical arguments to change any of those but I don't think logical arguments matter. It's emotional, the fierce MRG loyalty, and that's what you have to address.

And frankly, I don't know how you'd change that attitidue in short order. It's a long term process that may succeed eventually. Or may never succeed.

-dave-

 

[JimG.]

So your feeling is a wedge on skis (maybe 45 degree to the fall line) is as distruptive to the surface as a constant scrape completely perpendicular to the fall line? I'm not a physics guy, but that doesn't seem to make sense to me. And again, based on my observations, a snowboarder scraping down a run pushes a lot more snow down the slope than does a skier in a wedge where the snow seems more evenly distributed as they descend.

Doug has explained this to you well in his reply...skis are longer than snowboards, 2 edges instead of 1, and plenty of poor skiers do sideslip in a jam...the same reason poor snowboarders sideslip. No difference between the two regarding damage to the snow surface.

That wasn't my question. If snowboards were allowed at MRG, would the lines change at all?

Yes it was...MRG's terrain demands good skills. As Doug also mentioned, there would be an initial rush of snowboarders and the good ones who have the skills required to enjoy MRG would be rapidly weeded out. Back to my original answer...good skiers or snowboarders make good bump lines. MRG demands good skills. Therefore, good bump lines. Nothing changes.

I still think there is at least some validity to it.

Here we continue to disagree.

 

[Greg]

Here we continue to disagree.

Not totally. I'm not too proud to alter my opinion based on some solidly presented points. With that said, I am going to be more aware of watching beginner/intermediate skiers/boarders this season to see what effect they have on the snow surface. It could very well be that boards side-slipping produce a much louder scrape, and more attention is given to that as a result...

 

[dmc]

It could very well be that boards side-slipping produce a much louder scrape, and more attention is given to that as a result...

DING DING DING... Give that man a cigar...

 

[Greg]

DING DING DING... Give that man a cigar...

See? It's realizations like this that can result when a discussion remains civil and when people on both sides of the debate keep an open mind...

 

[dmc]

See? It's realizations like this that can result when a discussion remains civil and when people on both sides of the debate keep an open mind...

Not a problem here...

I only push as hard as I get pushed and enjoy a rational discussion... Otherwise I'm pretty mellow...

 

[JimG.]

It could very well be that boards side-slipping produce a much louder scrape, and more attention is given to that as a result...

Oh yeah, this is defintely true. The width of a snowboard seems to intensify the scraping noise alot.

 

[tree_skier]

So just ignore it... wtf?

why do people get so "Beat a dead horse" about this issue...??

I think this has been a great thread...

Because it is a dead horse and I also find it humorous that pretty much the same people that get all over ASC for the McMountain approach get all over MRG for their niche market appoarch.

For all the griping I hear about this policy there is a way to change it, put you money up for a share and vote for change untill then ... wtf?

 

[JimG.]

Because it is a dead horse and I also find it humorous that pretty much the same people that get all over ASC for the McMountain approach get all over MRG for their niche market appoarch.

I haven't noticed this; I'll keep a closer eye out for it now.

One thing this skier does notice is that skiers who are loyal to MRG are really defensive about the place. And that's a great thing for MRG. I love the place myself! But we aren't "getting on" MRG for their approach. We're discussing the ban on snowboards.

I think it worries people that when you really get into this topic, it becomes clear that the very market approach you claim we are getting on really wouldn't change all that much.

 

[tree_skier]

I think it worries people that when you really get into this topic, it becomes clear that the very market approach you claim we are getting on really wouldn't change all that much.

The market approach of skiers only wouldn't change by allowing snowboarders????

It would take them out of that niche and make them just one of the masses

 

[Kerovick]

First off....

I'm a horrible snowboarder (greens, with linked turns. Blues are instant death to me)
I'm a good Skier and a good skiboarder (never seen a slope I couldn't ski with some sense of style, but of course I've never been out west or to any "real" mountain


I hate the fact that some resorts ban snowboards, I also hate the fact that a couple places have banned Skiboards from there parks. I hate watching bad boarders/skiers scrap the snow off the slopes (especially when it's me that's doing it :cringe. In a perfect world all mountains would be open to all winter sport sliding type things. To bad we don't live in a perfect world, huh? Did this post have a point. No, and that's ok with me cause it's friday.

Kero

 

[JimG.]

The market approach of skiers only wouldn't change by allowing snowboarders????

It would take them out of that niche and make them just one of the masses

I was referring to the "old school" niche. I know you're going to get on me for that too, that snowboards aren't old school. I'm talking about the vibe. There are snowboarders who are mellow, some of whom started out as skiers years ago.

I believe it is impossible to argue rationally about this with the group who just says "either no snowboards or MRG will suck".

You need to be more open minded than that.

 

[Greg]

I was referring to the "old school" niche. I know you're going to get on me for that too, that snowboards aren't old school. I'm talking about the vibe. There are snowboarders who are mellow, some of whom started out as skiers years ago.

I believe it is impossible to argue rationally about this with the group who just says "either no snowboards or MRG will suck".

You need to be more open minded than that.

I think tree_skier meant "niche" in terms of marketing. After all, just look how much staying power this debate has. It is inherently good marketing for MRG - any publicity is good publicity.

 

[JimG.]

I think tree_skier meant "niche" in terms of marketing. After all, just look how much staying power this debate has. It is inherently good marketing for MRG - any publicity is good publicity.

I know that...but MRG has more of a niche than just "no snowboards". How about no snowmaking, no grooming, and no rules about where you can ski (other than that you can't be in the woods after 3pm)? How about no high speed lifts? No triples or quads?

I'm not debating the staying power of the no snowboard rule, or the benefit of the PR pro or con. But I think if you're going to tell me that the only niche MRG fills is the no snowboard niche then you are really devalueing the other unique features of the place.

What we really have here is a hard core group of skiers who don't want anything to do with snowboards. It's OK, and it is their right as a coop to be that way if they choose, no arguments. But don't dress it up with concerns about niches, PR, and marketing concerns.

They don't want snowboards there and specifically exclude them.

 

[Greg]

So essentially the co-op is still thinking the way they did back in 1985? That video is a classic! "They're just like a missile!" :lol:

 

[dmc]

For all the griping I hear about this policy there is a way to change it, put you money up for a share and vote for change untill then ... wtf?

The debate will continue until the day I get banned from this board...

Until then I keep the debate alive.. And when a new voice is added then I advance the debate... Who knows what will happen... I know that I alone can't change this exclusion but if there's many of us on board and they become part of this debate.. Then MAYBE they can continue it somewhere else in front of a whole new set of people...

Cause for me... The horse is still kickin...

To you - maybe not so alive... But you got what you want... I do not... And I want it..

 

[wintersyndrome]

MRG is not going to change, Im fine with that, I can still ride slide-brook.
and its fine that the shareholders want to keep it the way it is, there are many other mountains in VT and my happiness does not hinge on MRG allowing me to snowboard there, I would ski there if I still found skiing as enjoyable as snowboarding, but I do not, (personal taste) so I will snowboard elsewhere.

though here it is from their website The Co-ops Mission

The Mad River Glen Cooperative was founded to fulfill a simple mission.
That is…to preserve and protect the forest and mountain ecosystem of Stark Mountain in order to provide skiing and other recreational access and to maintain the unique character of the area for present and future generations.

are snowboards not recreational?

my horse is dead...does anybody have a pony?

 

[dmc]

The market approach of skiers only wouldn't change by allowing snowboarders????

It would take them out of that niche and make them just one of the masses

Why do you accuse us of beating a dead horse and then join the debate???

Is there still some life left or do you just like talk out of both sides of your mouth?