Need some all-mtn ski help, please

[The Sneak]

Hello.

Level 7+ skier. 30 years old. 5' 8" 160 lbs. Currently ski on aging Fischer RX8s, would like to retain those for groomer use. I am looking for a deal on year or 2 year old gear. I demo'd Volkl AC-30s in 170cm last february @ Wildcat, and found these to be very high effort, stiff skis. Could it have been the length?

I am looking at AC-2s, AC-3s, AC-20s, and AC-30s. What I want is something fun and snappy on groomers, but better suited to crud, powder, bumps, and trees than my RX8s. I was thinking the AC20 in 163 or 170 would be the way to go, but am curious how the older AC2 and AC3 stack up.

Any input or advice is appreciated. My boots are Nordica Supercharger Ignitions, if that makes any difference. I will ski approx 10 days @ WaWa (silver passholder) and another 10+ at 'real' places this year.

I'm value-oriented, so feel free to suggest other all-mtn advanced/not quite super expert skis that are good bargains.

Thanks!

 

[o3jeff]

If you are interested in the AC30 make me an offer
http://forums.alpinezone.com/35545-fs-08-volkl-ac30-marker-ipt12-0-piston.html

 

[Greg]

I skied on 170 cm AC3s for a few seasons (I'm 165 lbs., but 6'1"). Great ski, lots of "pop". A little burly for the bumps, but a decent groomer and sub-1' powder ski. Very stable. If you consider yourself an advanced intermediate+, I don't know if I'd consider the AC2/20 line. Seems like Jeff's skis are right up your alley! Stay on the gas with them, and you'll be rewarded.

 

[riverc0il]

Depends how much you want to venture off the groomers... but I think there are better skis out there for a focus on non-grooming skiing including bumps, trees, crud, and powder. I would recommend demoing the AC2x before considering a purchase. If you consider the AC3x to be high effort and rather stiff, I doubt it was the length but I also think the AC2x would be too much of a step down for a level 7 skiing looking to take it up a notch. Try a bunch of other all mountains via demos this early season prior to deciding, IMO.

 

[Greg]

Try a bunch of other all mountains via demos this early season prior to deciding, IMO.

I'm all for the demo thing if you can, but the problem is that often times during a demo, you don't get enough varied conditions to see how the ski does overall. Finding powder and good bumps early season might not be a given. I hold as much credence in consistently positive first hand reviews as I do demoing, which quite honestly I've only done once I think.

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

the first ac30...think it was 06 (orange ski) is softer than the 07 ac30 (black) and the 08...so if you felt that the ac30 you were on last year was too stiff, the orange ac30 and the ac3 before them are softer and more user friendly in bumps. there are plenty of other options out there...a woodcore sidewall twin tip like a K2 PE would be a good pick...Fischer Watea 78 or 84...no metal, woodcore, sidewall freeride ski, Head Monster 78..lots of happy folks on Dynastar legends too.

 

[gorgonzola]

too bad your not on line right now or you could grab some dynastar troublemakers on tramdock cheap -$174. I'm with ECPH, a sandwhich construction wood core twin makes a great all mountain ski

 

[hrstrat57]

Just sold my two pair of RX 8's 170's and 175's. Great skis, outstanding. The 175's were especially top notch for me - much more versatile than the shorter lengths.

I upgraded to Head i supershapes end of last season, 1 groomer ski is enuff.

Skis of the little bit wider type I have tried and liked in the last couple years? You would probably want to size down at least one size on all.....

Elan M666 176
Volkl Karma 177(would have prefrd the 184 I think)
K2 PE (174 I think)
Dynastar 8000 Legend (179?)

I ski'd the AC 3 and AC 4 and didn't like either particularly

I have decided on downsizing.to a 2 ski quiver - the 170 Head i supershapes and a mint pair of 2005 Volkl Explosivs (180) with Rossi tt's...

Probably not much help as I am out on hunting further for now.....tho any of the above skis can probably be found NOS with a bit of hunting. Of the bunch I listed, the twin tips(karma and PE) were the most surprising. Great skis.

Karma has been replaced (Bridge?) and I haven't ski'd the replacement....the PE was pretty much unchanged last year from what I had tried I think.....others more up to current spec can chime in I hope.....

The Explosivs are so versatile they make the 75-85 width ski unnecessary for me. Amazingly, I can carve RR tracks on groomers with them, big turns of course not shortswing ski a lot like an old school GS race ski on packed snow, think maybe 208 Rossi 7gk like....

In deep stuff of course they are fantastic.....

I might suggest you think also about going a bit wider?

Hopefully I finally catch up with you at Wa this year.....we've missed a few times.....

 

[riverc0il]

I'm all for the demo thing if you can, but the problem is that often times during a demo, you don't get enough varied conditions to see how the ski does overall. Finding powder and good bumps early season might not be a given. I hold as much credence in consistently positive first hand reviews as I do demoing, which quite honestly I've only done once I think.

I disagree that you need to demo a ski in all conditions to get a good feel for it. Maybe this is true if you are looking for a specific ski (powder or bump ski as an example) but you can do demos later in the season, no need to specifically do early season.

For an all mountain ski, as long as you can find some natural snow on the mountain, you can at least get a feel. At the very least, you most definitely can cross off certain models straight out (many that might possibly have a strong following online) which is just as important as finding the right ski.

I had this experience with the Volkl Mantra. I was all set to pull the trigger (almost did but a place had sold out at a discounted price) and ultimately decided to demo. Hated the ski. Best decision I made that year was doing a demo. Saved me a lot of money and a lot of wasted time.

I have actually only done three demos in my life. Once was a full on multi-ski demo day, the second was a follow up to that day on the 8K, and the third was the Mantra. I have bought skis without demoing with mixed results with one ski I sold after one day's use, one ski I used for a few seasons but was too one dimensional, and a third ski that was nearly a home run. So I don't have a lot of demo experience and I have made some good and bad buying decisions without demoing. My best decisions (on both what to buy and what not to buy) were made on the days I demoed though.

 

[Greg]

I disagree that you need to demo a ski in all conditions to get a good feel for it. Maybe this is true if you are looking for a specific ski (powder or bump ski as an example) but you can do demos later in the season, no need to specifically do early season.

For an all mountain ski, as long as you can find some natural snow on the mountain, you can at least get a feel. At the very least, you most definitely can cross off certain models straight out (many that might possibly have a strong following online) which is just as important as finding the right ski.

I had this experience with the Volkl Mantra. I was all set to pull the trigger (almost did but a place had sold out at a discounted price) and ultimately decided to demo. Hated the ski. Best decision I made that year was doing a demo. Saved me a lot of money and a lot of wasted time.

I hear ya. If you can swing it, demoing is a good idea and in your instance proved critical. I guess I've been lucky in that actually non of the skis I've ended up with have not been demoed beforehand and I still enjoyed the skis for the most part. That might be due in part in me not being skilled enough to be able to detect subtle differences or whatever. The closest I got was demoing the predecessor of my AC3, the 724 EXP. Similar ski, but still not exactly the same one. I guess my point is that if the OP is looking to find that elusive do-it-all ski and wants it in advance of the majority of this season, it might be tough to pull of a demo early enough and in enough different conditions to be able to rely solely on a demo.

 

[riverc0il]

Word. The Sneak did not indicate needing to buy before the season started but if that was the case, then there is little choice but to rely on word of mouth. I specifically brought up demoing in this instance especially because The Sneak didn't seem to have a super experience with the AC3x but was considering the 2x which didn't seem like a prudent move considering what we know at this point. Ruling out skis is almost as important as deciding on one... perhaps even more important because you can have a short list of skis that all will work but you don't want to get stuck without something you don't like. A lot of money to roll the dice. I have done so but don't mind being a gear nut that buys and sells of equipment all the time.

 

[Mildcat]

I bought a pair of Dynastar legend 8000's (172's) last year and it sounds like just what you're asking for. You can find some left overs cheap too.

 

[The Sneak]

Thanks all for your input. Yes, I'm definitely looking to grab some leftovers before the season starts.

I love the way the RX8s ski but they just aren't great off the groomers. I'm going to check out some of the suggestions posted here and see what I can come up with.

Paul, we will definitely have to meet up. I'm sure I'll be @ WaWa opening day for the WROD.

 

[bigbog]

...where off-trail?....Wachusett???

I'd go along with all of riverc0il's....and fwiw I have demoed older AC20s one day @SR.."pp"...although that was the 03' ski I believe...thought it felt like a rental ski...heavy..etc. My 99' Vertigo G3s(70mm) had it all over the AC20(back then!).
You might wanna try to demo jeff's AC30...his or resort's.
Imho there are lots of areas where you want something that your weight can vary turn size easily and be able to handle rather rough drops/bumps/undulating-terrain...and once you get up to some level of momentum..overgrowth can come at ya' rather quickly...but that's just at my 175lbs & 5'8"..some bushes I just can't see over that someone over 6' can. I think this is where Fischer's Watea/Axxx(sp?), Dynastar's Mythics/8000s, just to name just a few, hold their own when off trail.

$.01

 

[The Sneak]

where off trail...wachusett?

funnnny...

No, not at WaWa...more like Stowe, Wildcat, Mt Snow, Beast, Sunapee, Sugarloaf etc.

I'm looking at those Dynastar 8000s now. 165 or 172 is the question...

 

[Greg]

I'm looking at those Dynastar 8000s now. 165 or 172 is the question...

Understand that the 2008+ models are different than the 2007 and earlier. I've never seen a complaint about the older models, but haven't heard much about the newer ones. I'd imagine you'll still be able to find the pre-2007 boards. I'm 6'1", 165 lbs. and I ski the 172 cm. I love them. I think they would compliment your RX8s well. The Legends are great off the groomed and manageable in the bumps. Not a great hard pack ski, but you already have that in the RX8.

 

[bigbog]

8000 length...

Hi Sneak,
*Just a little bit of humor...didn't mean to be wisea**...spent my initial years mostly at WaWa...weekday nights!! ..There's room for a LOT of tree skiing up here in Maine. I guess at resorts the bottom-line$$ takes precedence above taking the labor-time for the needed trimming due to overgrowth....but there sure could be a lot more tree lines with some cutting. I think in Wachusett's case...it may too be cause of State Park regs...?? But it is time consuming...but something I'd love to do...
Surprising though what the 165s can do...but I don't know its top limit for speed is...
Haven't been on 165s since ~03', so as Greg mentioned...they've tweaked it a little bit...but get the mount point right..and the 172 isn't a giant step up from the 165s in controllability but will certainly be more stable.

$.01
SteveD

 

[riverc0il]

Alright, time for the ski recs since you want to purchase sight unseen before the season starts. My suggestion would be, based upon your input thus far, to get a ski that will lean more towards great natural snow performance and not offer so much hard pack performance but enough that it can get you to where you are going. I think the AC3x puts too much cross coverage in your quiver and you can do better for natural snow performance. This is also based on your input that you found the ski to be high input and stiff (I wouldn't consider this ski to be high input or stiff, but skis ski different for different people and your input can guide other's suggestions).

So I would suggest "all mountain mid-fat" skis that are not lined with sheets of metal, have a decent shovel and width for powder, but still retain good characteristics for bumps and trees per your desired ski preferences. The skis that immediately come to mind are the Fischer Watea (78 or 84 are available I believe, depending if you would prefer better performance in powder or else where) and Dynastar Legend (4800 and 8000, I'd recommend stepping it up with the 8000 if you are still developing). Both can be found rather cheaply online (ebay is a good source)... last year's models (and older for the 8000) for cheap brand new. Other considerations might include the Elan 666 (little better hard pack performance) and perhaps something in the Solomon Gun line up depending upon how fat you want to go. Lot's of options. Do searches online, both here and else where and you should find substantial opinion on these various models. Ultimately, you will have to choose what type of performance matters most and make some sort of compromise because there is no quiver of one, contrary to popular demand, that does every excellent. But there are a lot of skis that do a lot of things well and excel in certain conditions.

The problem with buying skis sight unseen and untested that are old models and on the bargain end of things is they will not retain their value. If you don't like the skis you choose, you'll be loosing money on the deal.

Good luck!

 

[hrstrat57]

I'm looking at those Dynastar 8000s now. 165 or 172 is the question...

172 for you (or 178 def not 165)

If you find a pair of flat ski's to buy let me know, I can set you up with some mint Look turntables cheap...if I can get the ol no 3 posi drive screwdriver to work. You'd be on your own for wide brakes tho....

Don't sell the twintips I described short.....leftover K2 PE's could be found cheap at REI in Cranston at end of last year....good ski, shouldn't be hard to find some "07's. The Volkl Karma was a great all mountain ski too.....

The Elan M666 was one of the best skis I have ever been on....should have bought a pair.....

Anderson ski in EG has a pretty good selection of used stuff upstairs.....there were some mint looking Volkl G3's for example. Some of my stuff is up there on consignment as well, nothing you are looking for tho....

Most of the skis discussed here are probably all awesome and you would dial in any of them pretty easily IMO. I agree with rivercoil on probably bypassing the skis with metal like top fuel etc...the Nordica Hot Rod modified was another ski in this category I ski'd and loved a couple of years ago. No metal in that one either.

I'm in on WA but I will probably skip the WROD if it is just Conifer....

Guess you missed my little rant on here and Epic about that last year:evil:

We'll get it done this year......

 

[The Sneak]

Thanks again all for your detailed input. I used to be a much better skier than I am now. 11, 12 years ago, I logged back to back ~80 day seasons @ the Loaf. (ahh, college).

I was broke as a joke in my mid 20s and gave up skiing for 3 or 4 years. When I came back to the sport in 2005-2006, I was still using circa 1999? K2 4s with the little glowing red light.

I picked up the RX8s a few years back and really like them for what they are. Fast, nimble, super fun. I'm not nearly as confident or aggressive as I used to be for some reason, but it started to come back towards the end of last season. Hoping this year will be my breakthrough season.

Based on everything I've seen here and elsewhere, the Dynastar Legend 8000s look like a solid choice. I'm off to look for them in 172cm.