New Cannon Tram?

[deadheadskier]

That's not going to happen for several reasons, one of them being installation challenges.

Out of curiosity, what would be the installation challenges? There's got to be gondolas around the world on much more difficult terrain to work with than Tram line.

Even with those challenges, I would think a gondola would be less expensive to install than a Tram.

Unfortunately I doubt it would even be considered because of the Iconic status of the Tram. But it really should be considered

 

[Newpylong]

Sure, there has to be, but at what cost?

I can't imagine trying to dig footings on that lift profile, installing comm lines, the haul rope,, etc and so on. The tram is one tower and done on Tramline.

Sometimes it doesn't make sense to try to stick a square peg in a round hole.

 

[deadheadskier]

Sure, there has to be, but at what cost?

I can't imagine trying to dig footings on that lift profile, installing comm lines, the haul rope,, etc and so on. The tram is one tower and done on Tramline.

Sometimes it doesn't make sense to try to stick a square peg in a round hole.

You would know better than most, but these challenges would make the installation cost of a Gondola greater than the $20M for a Tram?

I guess I just feel that gondolas provide a better user experience than Trams.

 

[Newpylong]

Hard to tell. But considering Skyeship cost Killington $15M in 1993-94 dollars (over $28M today) my guess is it wouldn't be too far below that $20M when it was all said and done. Skyeship is far longer (and essentially two lifts) but the majority of the costs were not the steel itself but the engineering/installation challenges.

 

[thebigo]

Would think whiteface would be the most similar profile. Found the following article, $5M seems very low.

The Whiteface Cloudsplitter gondola was first installed in 1999. Then-Gov. George Pataki — calling Whiteface “a jewel in the Adirondacks” — unveiled the new amenity on Nov. 23 that year, ahead of the first and only Winter Goodwill Games in 2000.


The gondola cost $5 million to install. It was among a slate of upgrades to Olympic facilities funded by the state under Pataki’s administration.

 

[Not Sure]

Hard to tell. But considering Skyeship cost Killington $15M in 1993-94 dollars (over $28M today) my guess is it wouldn't be too far below that $20M when it was all said and done. Skyeship is far longer (and essentially two lifts) but the majority of the costs were not the steel itself but the engineering/installation challenges.

I wonder how a gondola would fare in the wind tunnel that Franconia notch is ?
I would think there would be a lot of wind holds vs the heavy Tram .

 

[ss20]

I wonder how a gondola would fare in the wind tunnel that Franconia notch is ?
I would think there would be a lot of wind holds vs the heavy Tram .

But you have the Cannonball as a backup option for those windy days.

I'd also be very pro-gondola on the tram line for the saved $$ and added capacity.

 

[drjeff]

The simple reality is that 99% or so of the time, Cannon doesn't need more capacity than the potential increase from an 80 to a 100 person tram gives them for that part of the mountain.

Plus the non skiing marketability of a Tram, vs the Gondola a few miles down 93 at Loon and the non skiing months Summer attractions in Lincoln, makes a new Tram the year round leader IMHO

 

[raisingarizona]

My guess is that the tram is and always has been more about summer tourist traffic. It’s a state park right?

trams just have that sexy, European flare about em too.

 

[ceo]

The tram is, and always has been, a summer tourist attraction first and a ski lift second. In that context, and given that it and its predecessor have been an iconic feature of Franconia Notch for almost a century(!), I can't imagine they'd even consider replacing it with a gondola.

 

[DoublePlanker]

Another article

Cannon Mountain Looking to Either Renovate or Replace Their Aerial Tramway

Will the tramway at Cannon Mountain in New Hampshire be modified, or will a replacement be coming to one of the most iconic lifts in the country? On July

unofficialnetworks.com

"Will the tramway at Cannon Mountain in New Hampshire be modified, or will a replacement be coming to one of the most iconic lifts in the country? On July 16’th, Cannon Mountain General Manager John Devivo met with the governor (Chris Sununu), Executive Council, and Cannon Mountain Advisory Commission to express concern over the tram’s longevity due to its various mechanical needs. Cannon Mountain is a part of Franconia Notch State Park, and the land is leased away from the state. Every change at the mountain needs to be reviewed and approved by the state. With federal funds being ample at the moment, if a big change is wanted, now would be the time to act.

The Union Leader reports that two options are being considered:

• A complete refurbishment would cost between ten to fifteen million dollars. The tram cars would be replaced and capacity would be increased in the cabins from eighty to a hundred people. Other replacements to the lift parts would include the “hanger arms, carriage trolleys, electromechanical components, and the motor and braking systems.” This would let the tram last for an additional twenty years.
• A replacement of the lift. This option would be in the twenty to thirty million dollar range. No specifics have been given on what kind of lift this would be, but a ballpark guess would be a new tram, or a gondola with more cabins than the current aerial tram to reduce the wait time, but not as many cabins as gondolas at mountains like Killington or Bretton Woods. This new lift would last for between forty to fifty years.

What would you like to see happen to Cannon’s Aeriel Tram?"

 

[dblskifanatic]

The one argument I could see against a chair / gondola is increased traffic on the Summit trails, Bypass and Zoomer with more people wanting to do TTB laps. Right now, many people don't do that because they don't like riding the Team.

Becasue a lot if the time the line sucks, If it is not busy then it is not bad at all. But more TTB runs would make Bypass more interesting.

 

[ss20]

The determining factor will probably be what kind of shape the concrete foundations are in and the terminal structures. To me a renovation makes no sense as you'll be doing this whole process again in 20 years. Building new the article states it'd last between 40 and 50 years which is very conservative if it is a tram. The current tram is 40 years old...I'd have to imagine one built today would last 60 years if taken care of properly. But if you go the gondola route....more moving pieces...40 year lifespan max.

 

[skiur]

The determining factor will probably be what kind of shape the concrete foundations are in and the terminal structures. To me a renovation makes no sense as you'll be doing this whole process again in 20 years. Building new the article states it'd last between 40 and 50 years which is very conservative if it is a tram. The current tram is 40 years old...I'd have to imagine one built today would last 60 years if taken care of properly. But if you go the gondola route....more moving pieces...40 year lifespan max.

Seems the opposite to me, things were built better and lasted longer in the past than they are now.

 

[Hawk]

Haven't seen "JD" in years. He was the first person I ever evaced from a lift. That was prob 1988/89 ??
Good man !
A new tram would be sweet.
YES, capactiy gets a 25% bump to 100

HA me neither. The last time I saw him we were having an argument about plans to kick the Barker folks out of the second floor to make it the race center or something like that. After a few minutes of argument, he said "if you don't like it you can always leave". Well the next year I was at Sugarbush. LOL He was I nice guy until he got corruted by LBO's evil plot.

 

[Abubob]

There’s not gonna be a chair, chondola or gondola so we can just put that idea to rest. The tram is a New Hampshire parks icon. It will always be a tram.

That being said, I hope they will go for a new tram. For the price repairing MIGHT get an additional 20 years but there’s no guarantee for that. By then a new tram would be required. So why put off the inevitable? I doubt money will be more available in 20 years. However, if its gonna take 15 years of haggling over details then yeah, repair, haggle and rebuild.

 

[ss20]

There’s not gonna be a chair, chondola or gondola so we can just put that idea to rest. The tram is a New Hampshire parks icon. It will always be a tram.

That being said, I hope they will go for a new tram. For the price repairing MIGHT get an additional 20 years but there’s no guarantee for that. By then a new tram would be required. So why put off the inevitable? I doubt money will be more available in 20 years. However, if its gonna take 15 years of haggling over details then yeah, repair, haggle and rebuild.

lol almost exactly what I said 3 posts above. Yeah a renovation makes very little to no sense.

 

[Abubob]

lol almost exactly what I said 3 posts above. Yeah a renovation makes very little to no sense.

It only makes sense for the purpose of buying time to hammer out details for the inevitable new.

 

[hardscrabble]

https://liftblog.com/2022/02/18/cannon-mountain-guns-for-a-new-tram/

Confirmed for "no one wants a gondola"

 

[snoseek]

I get why they want a tram but functionally as a skier if you removed the zoomer chair and ran something t2b with a mid unload higher and the lookers left of zoomer it would be a primo east coast lift. Maybe theyll bring back 7 day operations with a new tram?