New York Yankees

[JimG.]

I read today that Fatboy didn't have any strikeouts last night because he was trying to conserve energy in the heat...so he got bombed in the 6th anyway.

$28 million for a fatso who can't go all out and loses because he pooped out? Lame purchase.

I'm telling you, Cashman is history very soon. The winning streak seems like it was an aberration.

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

I read today that Fatboy didn't have any strikeouts last night because he was trying to conserve energy in the heat...so he got bombed in the 6th anyway.

$28 million for a fatso who can't go all out and loses because he pooped out? Lame purchase.

I'm telling you, Cashman is history very soon. The winning streak seems like it was an aberration.

Ugggh. Quite possibly the greatest pitcher ever is "Fatboy"?

What should the Yanks have done? Give up on the season? Pitch Chase Wright every 5th day? What were the alternatives?

And who cares what he makes? He didn't force the Yanks to pay him $17 million (NOT $28 million). I don't begrudge athletes what they make. If someone wants to pay (and drive up ticket prices), they should get it, even if they don't deserve it. Until fans stop going to the ballpark, owners won't stop paying ludicrous sums.

 

[JimG.]

Ugggh. Quite possibly the greatest pitcher ever is "Fatboy"?

What should the Yanks have done? Give up on the season? Pitch Chase Wright every 5th day? What were the alternatives?

And who cares what he makes? He didn't force the Yanks to pay him $17 million (NOT $28 million). I don't begrudge athletes what they make. If someone wants to pay (and drive up ticket prices), they should get it, even if they don't deserve it. Until fans stop going to the ballpark, owners won't stop paying ludicrous sums.

Yes, FAT. Nor is he my greatest of all time either. No way. Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Sandy Koufax, Whitey Ford all go before Clemens in my book. Clemens is a compiler of wins and he keeps pitching to feed his self image.

1-3 in his starts so far. Is that the record of a "saviour"?

My prediction: The White Sox are looking to trade Buerle and the Bosox have an inside track. If they seal that deal, Cashman is history the next day.

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Yes, FAT. Nor is he my greatest of all time either. No way. Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Sandy Koufax, Whitey Ford all go before Clemens in my book. Clemens is a compiler of wins and he keeps pitching to feed his self image.

1-3 in his starts so far. Is that the record of a "saviour"?

My prediction: The White Sox are looking to trade Buerle and the Bosox have an inside track. If they seal that deal, Cashman is history the next day.

Fat? No. Phat? Yes!

Cy Young? OK. You can make an argument. Even though he pitched during what, the last Ice Age? Different time. Different game. Walter Johnson? OK. Fine. Another argument. I don't think a few years of Koufax can match up against DECADES of Clemens. No way. And Whitey Ford? A great pitcher, but not in the same league as Cy Young, Johnson, Clemens or even Koufax.

I will not address your absurd (said which righteous indignation ) characterization of Clemens. You clearly have something personal against him.

Regarding Buehrle, you're about two days behind the times. Word is the Other Sox are going to sign him to a four-year extension for $50 million or so.

 

[Paul]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...l=3&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

 

[JimG.]

Fat? No. Phat? Yes!

Cy Young? OK. You can make an argument. Even though he pitched during what, the last Ice Age? Different time. Different game. Walter Johnson? OK. Fine. Another argument. I don't think a few years of Koufax can match up against DECADES of Clemens. No way. And Whitey Ford? A great pitcher, but not in the same league as Cy Young, Johnson, Clemens or even Koufax.

I will not address your absurd (said which righteous indignation ) characterization of Clemens. You clearly have something personal against him.

Regarding Buehrle, you're about two days behind the times. Word is the Other Sox are going to sign him to a four-year extension for $50 million or so.

I won't say anything about Koufax..ask any well informed baseball fan who watched him pitch and I think you would change your mind. The guy dominated the game during his career. DOMINATED.

As for Whitey, he still holds the record for consecutive scoreless innings pitched in World Series play, over 50 innings. That's 5 straight shutouts in the World Series. That's a hell of alot more impressive than anything Roger the compiler has ever done.

And as for me having something personal against Clemens, you bet I do...he's a Boston Red Sox retread! How dare you put a mercenary, self-glorifying, non-team player like Clemens ahead of a tried and true Yankee (who retired a Yankee and stayed retired) like Whitey Ford? Are you a Boston fan?

This is fun, isn't it.

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

I won't say anything about Koufax..ask any well informed baseball fan who watched him pitch and I think you would change your mind. The guy dominated the game during his career. DOMINATED.

As for Whitey, he still holds the record for consecutive scoreless innings pitched in World Series play, over 50 innings. That's 5 straight shutouts in the World Series. That's a hell of alot more impressive than anything Roger the compiler has ever done.

And as for me having something personal against Clemens, you bet I do...he's a Boston Red Sox retread! How dare you put a mercenary, self-glorifying, non-team player like Clemens ahead of a tried and true Yankee (who retired a Yankee and stayed retired) like Whitey Ford? Are you a Boston fan?

This is fun, isn't it.

All this subjective stuff is getting us nowhere, since you continue to refuse to concede that I am right and you are wrong.

So, let's engage in objective analysis.

What is the measure by which the best pitchers are judged? Why, Cy Young Awards, of course! How many Cy Youngs have Clemens won? Seven. SEVEN!!! At least one in both leagues, with six of them coming in the tougher league, the AL.

Seven. Wow. Yeah, he's a compiler alright.

How many did Cy Young win? Well, if he's so great, how many did he win? 10? 15? Try zero. ZERO! Zippo. Nadda. Same with Walter Johnson. Whitey Ford did manage to eke out one Cy Young. Koufax? ZERO!!!

And don't tell me how Cy Young couldn't have won one since the award didn't exist when he played. Whatever. If he were so great, he would have won one.

And Koufax, btw, actually did pitch in the Cy Young Award era....

Seven vs. one vs. zero vs. zero.

 

[JimG.]

All this subjective stuff is getting us nowhere, since you continue to refuse to concede that I am right and you are wrong.

So, let's engage in objective analysis.

What is the measure by which the best pitchers are judged? Why, Cy Young Awards, of course! How many Cy Youngs have Clemens won? Seven. SEVEN!!! At least one in both leagues, with six of them coming in the tougher league, the AL.

Seven. Wow. Yeah, he's a compiler alright.

How many did Cy Young win? Well, if he's so great, how many did he win? 10? 15? Try zero. ZERO! Zippo. Nadda. Same with Walter Johnson. Whitey Ford did manage to eke out one Cy Young. Koufax? ZERO!!!

And don't tell me how Cy Young couldn't have won one since the award didn't exist when he played. Whatever. If he were so great, he would have won one.

And Koufax, btw, actually did pitch in the Cy Young Award era....

Seven vs. one vs. zero vs. zero.

You are consistent...you used the same logic in the A-rod versus Jeter discussion we had.

You're a numbers guy, I'm not. You're an awards guy, I'm not.

You think A-rod is better than Jeter, and you use batting or home run titles and MVP awards to justify it. Using that reasoning, Barry Bonds is better than Jeter too because he has what, 5 MVP awards? That's fair.

But I don't look at it that way.

I look at championships. Jeter has 4; A-rod + Bonds = 0. Jeter wins.

Same with Clemens who has 2 rings because he weaseled his way onto the Yankees and rode their coattails to them; they didn't need him to win. Ford has how many World Series titles? 8? And he was the anchor of the staff. I'm not a numbers guy and I don't know how many if any Cy Young or Walter Johnson won, but I also know Koufax dominated at least 2 World Series.

Roger Clemens has never lead a team to a championship, never put a team on his back and drove it to a championship by example. He pitches and compiles wins and awards and if he's on a great team, he won 2 rings. The one chance he had in Houston to show he could lead they were SWEPT.

So don't tell me he's better than Whitey Ford...I'll never agree with you on that.

 

[FRITOLAYGUY]

You are consistent...you used the same logic in the A-rod versus Jeter discussion we had.

You're a numbers guy, I'm not. You're an awards guy, I'm not.

You think A-rod is better than Jeter, and you use batting or home run titles and MVP awards to justify it. Using that reasoning, Barry Bonds is better than Jeter too because he has what, 5 MVP awards? That's fair.

But I don't look at it that way.

I look at championships. Jeter has 4; A-rod + Bonds = 0. Jeter wins.

Same with Clemens who has 2 rings because he weaseled his way onto the Yankees and rode their coattails to them; they didn't need him to win. Ford has how many World Series titles? 8? And he was the anchor of the staff. I'm not a numbers guy and I don't know how many if any Cy Young or Walter Johnson won, but I also know Koufax dominated at least 2 World Series.

Roger Clemens has never lead a team to a championship, never put a team on his back and drove it to a championship by example. He pitches and compiles wins and awards and if he's on a great team, he won 2 rings. The one chance he had in Houston to show he could lead they were SWEPT.

So don't tell me he's better than Whitey Ford...I'll never agree with you on that.

Koufax from people that have see him was in a league of his own, he gets the ball if i had 1 game to win regardless of who it was against.

 

[Paul]

Roger Clemens has never lead a team to a championship, never put a team on his back and drove it to a championship by example. He pitches and compiles wins and awards and if he's on a great team, he won 2 rings. The one chance he had in Houston to show he could lead they were SWEPT.

So what you're saying is that Clemens can't even wear Schilling's sock?

 

[FRITOLAYGUY]

So what you're saying is that Clemens can't even wear Schilling's sock?

I will answer for him, NO .

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

I will answer for him, NO .

You're right. Down in Texas a man would get the s**t kicked out of him for wearing a sock covered in lipstick, marker or whatever Schilling used to color his stupid sock.

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

You are consistent...you used the same logic in the A-rod versus Jeter discussion we had.

You're a numbers guy, I'm not. You're an awards guy, I'm not.

You think A-rod is better than Jeter, and you use batting or home run titles and MVP awards to justify it. Using that reasoning, Barry Bonds is better than Jeter too because he has what, 5 MVP awards? That's fair.

But I don't look at it that way.

I look at championships. Jeter has 4; A-rod + Bonds = 0. Jeter wins.

Same with Clemens who has 2 rings because he weaseled his way onto the Yankees and rode their coattails to them; they didn't need him to win. Ford has how many World Series titles? 8? And he was the anchor of the staff. I'm not a numbers guy and I don't know how many if any Cy Young or Walter Johnson won, but I also know Koufax dominated at least 2 World Series.

Roger Clemens has never lead a team to a championship, never put a team on his back and drove it to a championship by example. He pitches and compiles wins and awards and if he's on a great team, he won 2 rings. The one chance he had in Houston to show he could lead they were SWEPT.

So don't tell me he's better than Whitey Ford...I'll never agree with you on that.

Scott Brosius has more WS rings than Barry Bonds. So, Brosius is better?

Clemens: 2 WS wins (and, despite what you say, he was a very important part of the rotation and won a Cy Young while a Yankee!) + taking his hometown Astros to their 1st World Series? Pretty good, pretty good. He is a w-i-n-n-e-r. And a warrior (sorry, Steinbrenner just stole my keyboard for a second there).

As a Yankee fan (well, I think you are one), you should be psyched that Clemens pitches for the Yanks. Just think. Clemens should be the number one folk hero of the Red Sox Nation. He's in a league of his own (OK, all kidding aside, he's without question a top 10 pitcher of all time). By far the best Red Sox pitcher ever (Pedro was great in his prime of, what, 4 years?). But, instead, Clemens pitches for, and wins with, the Yankees, and RSN can't love him as its own. It's tragic, really. Same thing with Manny. He's an absolute machine (offensively). But, he's wanted out of Boston (and away from Boston fans) for YEARS, so RSN can't really embrace him, either. Big Papi, "Mr. Clutch (TM)", is a great DH, don't get me wrong, but he's nothing compared to Clemens or Manny. And Damon? WWJDD? Poor RSN. Granted, I'd rather he played on the Sox now, but 2006 was priceless from my perspective.

 

[JimG.]

Scott Brosius has more WS rings than Barry Bonds. So, Brosius is better?

Clemens: 2 WS wins (and, despite what you say, he was a very important part of the rotation and won a Cy Young while a Yankee!) + taking his hometown Astros to their 1st World Series? Pretty good, pretty good. He is a w-i-n-n-e-r. And a warrior (sorry, Steinbrenner just stole my keyboard for a second there).

As a Yankee fan (well, I think you are one), you should be psyched that Clemens pitches for the Yanks. Just think. Clemens should be the number one folk hero of the Red Sox Nation. He's in a league of his own (OK, all kidding aside, he's without question a top 10 pitcher of all time). By far the best Red Sox pitcher ever (Pedro was great in his prime of, what, 4 years?). But, instead, Clemens pitches for, and wins with, the Yankees, and RSN can't love him as its own. It's tragic, really. Same thing with Manny. He's an absolute machine (offensively). But, he's wanted out of Boston (and away from Boston fans) for YEARS, so RSN can't really embrace him, either. Big Papi, "Mr. Clutch (TM)", is a great DH, don't get me wrong, but he's nothing compared to Clemens or Manny. And Damon? WWJDD? Poor RSN. Granted, I'd rather he played on the Sox now, but 2006 was priceless from my perspective.

Brosius hit so many clutch late season/playoff homers I can't remember them all. He was such a great fit at third for those teams. I would not have traded him for Bonds, wouldn't even have considered it. I don't know if that answers your question, I don't know if I can. Bonds may equal 756 lifetime homers, but to me Brosius is priceless.

I get the Clemens/Red Sox rooting thing, but don't you think Red Sox fans are snickering and thinking they're getting even considering Roger's anemic stats this season? I'm not bragging about Clemens to anyone from Boston. Plus I just don't like his personality which I'm sure is obvious.

To end in agreement, I feel exactly as you do about Manny...the guy is one of the premier offensive players of his generation. I know he's a flake and can be a pain, but his numbers and clutch hitting more than make up for it. I'll take him on my team anyday. He KILLS the Yankees. Boston is smart...Manny is still on the team despite the yearly "trade him/I want off the team" stuff. That love/hate stuff can be a powerful motivator.

 

[JimG.]

So what you're saying is that Clemens can't even wear Schilling's sock?

Schilling and Clemens are 2 peas from the same pod. Not a Schilling fan either.

I guess in baseball today one has to get used to having players you don't necessarily like on your team. Would I like to see Schilling win 20 games for the Yanks? Sure. Clemens too if I'm totally honest. But I still won't like them.

Look, alot of people say Ty Cobb was the best baseball player ever. They will also admit he was a totally unlikeable son of a bitch. So, despite his greatness, I would probably not be a fan of his.

 

[Paul]

Schilling and Clemens are 2 peas from the same pod. Not a Schilling fan either.

I guess in baseball today one has to get used to having players you don't necessarily like on your team. Would I like to see Schilling win 20 games for the Yanks? Sure. Clemens too if I'm totally honest. Be I still won't like them.

Look, alot of people say Ty Cobb was the best baseball player ever. They will also admit he was a totally unlikeable son of a bitch. So, despite his greatness, I would probably not be a fan of his.

For the record, Jim, I was against the Schilling trade. Never cared for him either, and when Rawjah was in Boston, he wasn't well liked (by me anyway) but like you said, I took what he gave us, and appreciated it. I'm on the fence with Schill, personally, he may be a curmudgeon, and a bit of a pompous ass, but what he did in the WS gives him a pass from us Sox fans. I started questioning the Rocking-chair when he made that somewhat mysterious exit from game 6 of the WS. Why leave in the 6th? The bullpen was wiped-out, he wasn't pitching bad, and McNamara certainly didn't have the stones to tell him what to do. Its been speculated that Roger took himself out so that he would have time to get himself cleaned-up (and shaved!! remember, he wouldn't shave on gamedays superstitous crap) for the celebration that was *kaff*certain *kaff* to happen. Winner my ass, amazing talent, lousy teammate.

Oh, and CBMP...

You're right. Down in Texas a man would get the s**t kicked out of him for wearing a sock covered in lipstick, marker or whatever Schilling used to color his stupid sock.

Congratulations on losing any credibility you were starting to gain.

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Oh, and CBMP...Congratulations on losing any credibility you were starting to gain.

Thanks!

I was starting to wonder if I was going to get away with my insightful observation. Anyway, sorry to suggest Schill used lipstick. Didn't mean to say he was a girl or anything like that. I have too much respect for women to do that....

Zing! Oh boy. Curt just cracks me up! No offense meant.

Please just let me be bitter about 2004 and ignore me. As a Yankee fan, I have so little to be bitter about. Let me enjoy this. Better yet, someone from RSN please give me some tips on how to be a bitter fan. I have lots to learn from you.



I kid. I kid.

 

[Paul]

Thanks!

I was starting to wonder if I was going to get away with my insightful observation. Anyway, sorry to suggest Schill used lipstick. Didn't mean to say he was a girl or anything like that. I have too much respect for women to do that....

Zing! Oh boy. Curt just cracks me up! No offense meant.

Please just let me be bitter about 2004 and ignore me. As a Yankee fan, I have so little to be bitter about. Let me enjoy this. Better yet, someone from RSN please give me some tips on how to be a bitter fan. I have lots to learn from you.



I kid. I kid.

At least we know it wasn't A-Rod's lipstick, the blot would've been purple.:dunce:

Yeah...lame...low-hanging fruit...I keed, I keed......

 

[tree_skier]

As a Yankee fan, I have so little to be bitter about. Let me enjoy this. .

Please, I can see lots to be bitter about.

28 million for the fat man (keep telling youself that its prorated, you might believe it)

Steriod boy out for the season

A-rod still can't field and it's not september so he is still hitting

Mike Myers, another sox washout, brought in for one reason, get Ortiz out, failed

Johnny Damon, another sox washout, batting 250 on season .226 last 10 games and still throws like mary. playing DH????????

Doug Mientkiewicz, another sox washout, batting .226 on season and on DL (must have pulled the whinning muscle

should I go on

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

At least we know it wasn't A-Rod's lipstick, the blot would've been purple.:dunce:

Yeah...lame...low-hanging fruit...I keed, I keed......

Touché!



There was this great photoshop image of A-Rod with a purse dangling from his arm while gently swiping at Bronson. Hilarious stuff.

I was at that game, by the way. Quite a rollercoaster of emotions during that inning....And seeing the riot police storm the field at the end of the game was kind of a low point.

I bought a Yankee cap before Game 6 that I wear now to help remind myself that I'm not simply entitled to things (be it Yankee World Series wins or otherwise).