Permanent Industry Changes in the Post-COVID World

[cdskier]

Don't you ever need to add or remove layers as the conditions/temperature changes through the day? I like to keep a water bottle in my bag too.

Sure...that's one reason I have a backpack. Although the adding/removing layer thing usually only happens in the spring. Extremely rare that I ever need to do that on a normal mid-winter day.

 

[PAabe]

Sure...that's one reason I have a backpack. Although the adding/removing layer thing usually only happens in the spring. Extremely rare that I ever need to do that on a normal mid-winter day.

I don't enjoy skiing with a backpack but maybe I should invest in a fanny pack lol. I can fit a lot of stuff in my jacket and pockets but not extra layers, and not if I'm not wearing the jacket.

IMO temperatures are usually variable enough throughout the course of a day to warrant a layer change or so, even up north. Especially true if you stick around somewhere with night skiing.

 

[deadheadskier]

I have problems comprehending why booting up at the car is an issue or why you need to go back to the car to get something. I've been booting up at the car for 15+ years now probably so this wasn't a change at all for me this year. Maybe I'm just inherently not trusting of other people, but I have no desire to ever leave stuff in the lodge.

You might have a point on buses though. Although I don't see why it would be impossible to boot up at the bus and leave your stuff on the bus either.

It comes down to personal preference. I vastly prefer gearing up leisurely in the lodge. I mean it's warm, out of the elements and you're standing on carpet vs outside, in the cold and balancing over gravel or maybe a mat of some sort.

Also I think you and Dr Jeff in this thread, maybe others who are in favor of parking lot boot ups have a different perspective because of your proximity to the mountain.

If I'm staying near the resort, say within 30 minutes, I'll mostly fully gear up before leaving my lodging and just throw the boots on at the car. But that's only a handful of days of the season. Most days I'm driving 1:20-2:15 each way to ski. On the way up at minimum I don't wear my ski socks as that's a recipe for cold feet. On the way home, I typically want to change into some jeans. I'd rather do both in the lodge

Put me in the camp of no time limit or reservation cafeteria seating in ski lodges, booting up being welcome and a mandatory bag check that's well enforced.

Then maybe expand full service dining areas with mandatory reservations to help spread out the lunch hour and allow those who want to plan for a comfortable spot for lunch the opportunity to do so.

 

[cdskier]

I don't enjoy skiing with a backpack but maybe I should invest in a fanny pack lol. I can fit a lot of stuff in my jacket and pockets but not extra layers, and not if I'm not wearing the jacket.

IMO temperatures are usually variable enough throughout the course of a day to warrant a layer change or so, even up north. Especially true if you stick around somewhere with night skiing.

Like I said, I don't have that problem on a normal day. Open/Close vents on my jackets pants is generally enough for your average daytime temp changes mid-winter. Hell sometimes there are 10-15+ degree differences between the base and summit temps so I think good layers should be able to deal with some degree of change.

Also I think you and Dr Jeff in this thread, maybe others who are in favor of parking lot boot ups have a different perspective because of your proximity to the mountain.

I don't think that impacts my preference. I did the same thing back when I day-tripped regularly from NJ to the Cats (~2 hour drive). Only major difference now is I put my ski pants on before leaving my condo vs putting those on at the car like I did years ago.

 

[deadheadskier]

I don't have kids, but I was a kid. I didn't say boot up in the bus. I said at the bus (aka outside it just like everyone is doing at their cars right now). As a kid, I don't remember once having to go back and get anything after I started skiing. What exactly are people forgetting so often that this is an issue? If you're missing your gloves, helmet, goggles, etc, wouldn't you realize that immediately as you start walking away from the bus? Only one time did I forget something (left my gloves in the condo on a warm spring day).

Your childhood memories and experiences isn't the same as the experience of others. I could list a myriad of things that I want in a bag, conveniently in the lodge when skiing with my five year old. Extra mittens, spare goggles for when his get snow covered and fogged up from a wreck, extra socks, beverages and snacks. My kid like many is super finicky and the lodge often doesn't have the snacks he likes. Nevermind the prices.

Not having to trudge to the car in the cold for these things or at many places having to take a bus to the car is a royal pain in the ass with kids.

Bring it all on back to the way it was Pre-Covid. It worked fine. You just need to time your lodge visits to off peak times.

 

[Smellytele]

Time limits in lodges sound like a good idea.
Hopefully I don’t get arrested for having my necked ass in the parking lot. Hate wearing my ski underwear on a long ride but do sometimes when people are within site. Same with biking.

 

[Zand]

I don't understand the point of being so gung ho for permanent changes. If you want to boot up at your car every single time or carry 10 pounds of shit in a pack all day, no one is stopping you. Why speak out against the freedoms of others?

 

[Smellytele]

Your childhood memories and experiences isn't the same as the experience of others. I could list a myriad of things that I want in a bag, conveniently in the lodge when skiing with my five year old. Extra mittens, spare goggles for when his get snow covered and fogged up from a wreck, extra socks, beverages and snacks. My kid like many is super finicky and the lodge often doesn't have the snacks he likes. Nevermind the prices.

Not having to trudge to the car in the cold for these things or at many places having to take a bus to the car is a royal pain in the ass with kids.

Bring it all on back to the way it was Pre-Covid. It worked fine. You just need to time your lodge visits to off peak times.

Rarely had to go back to the lodge with my kids to get anything. Have carried extra neck warmers/balaclavas though.

 

[Smellytele]

I don't understand the point of being so gung ho for permanent changes. If you want to boot up at your car every single time or carry 10 pounds of shit in a pack all day, no one is stopping you. Why speak out against the freedoms of others?

Out west booting up at the car is the norm as lodge space is minimal.

 

[Zand]

Good for the west.

Let me know the next time the wind chill is -50 in Colorado like it often is at Jay.

 

[PAabe]

I also want to add here - I have been complaining about prices a good bit and I want to clarify - although it often is not cheap, lift ticket prices I do not find unreasonable most of the time. You can easily spend just as much or more money on other hobbies or leisure activities like even going out to eat. What I have a problem with is for example Vail coming in to places like Roundtop and trying to turn these feeder hills into, well Vail - they have said things along the lines of:
-"our customers seem to enjoy the Vail Experience™ of smaller size group lessons this year so we think we will avoid large lesson groups going forward"
-"we want to provide the best Vail Experience™ possible so we will be upgrading dining options to natural/wholesome [expensive] food choices"
-"we will be eliminating 4 hour tickets this year 'due to COVID' and our customers do not seem to mind because last year most people did not buy the 4 hour pass which we priced $3 less than the all day pass, and more time to ski is a better Experience™ anyway"
-"customers seem to enjoy booting up at their cars because they have no other option, therefore we will consider taking away the cubbies and continuing the ban on bags from the lodge going forward, and the risk of having your things stolen does not provide a good Experience™"

I will pay what it takes to ski but it is real hard to introduce new people to the sport when you have to either convince them to to cough up the money to pay for the whole Experience™ at the local hill or go on a long car ride to some place that doesn't have delusions that they are like an exclusive rocky mountain resort

 

[skiur]

I boot up in my living room and drive to the mountain but it's only a 5 minute drive. When I used to daytrip I liked having the lodge to boot up. If your within 15-20 min of the mountain, who needs a lodge. But if I had to drive further than that it's nice to boot up in the lodge.

 

[abc]

It's pretty simple. Some people like the lodge. That's why lodges are build! If everyone dislike lodges, there wouldn't be many.

People who don't use lodges, does the existence of base lodge gets in your way?

 

[PAabe]

When the hill is only 500 feet tall and you don't have a Grand Summit Hotel/Condo to go back to, the space and vibes of the lodge are pretty important

 

[cdskier]

I don't understand the point of being so gung ho for permanent changes. If you want to boot up at your car every single time or carry 10 pounds of shit in a pack all day, no one is stopping you. Why speak out against the freedoms of others?

To be clear, I'm not advocating for any changes one way or the other on the lodge topic going forward. I'm just saying I don't understand why the lack of a lodge was such a big deal for many people. Some people treated this as the end of the world (not necessarily anyone in this thread, but just comments I remember people making in general when the limits on lodges were first being announced for this year...).

 

[deadheadskier]

Rarely had to go back to the lodge with my kids to get anything. Have carried extra neck warmers/balaclavas though.

Great

How you experienced it and enjoyed it with your kids isn't how others prefer to.

You do you. You prefer booting up in the gravel, go for it.

Others prefer the lodge.

Choices are nice

 

[jimk]

A-Basin has a pretty distinctive action going on since they left the Epic pass a couple of years ago. They seem to be wanting to rebrand or return to their long ago brand as a local's place with smaller crowds and higher quality ski experience. They've been willing to experiment with smaller revenue to find the balance of just the right number of customers on their slopes to have both profitability and quality.

Snowbird is using a parking reservation system this year, which I don't like but have learned to cope with. To me it hampers your spontaneity. If you are local, you can't just go up tomorrow if you get the urge to ski because reservations may already be fully booked. If you are a vacationer, you can't just decide to go next month if the weekend you were thinking of visiting has no parking reservations available. The reality is that you probably can find a way to park at the resort because many days (but not all) they allow unreserved parking on the access road, but without that reservation then a parking space is not quite guaranteed. Before this year and the reservation system went into effect you could pretty much always find a space to squeeze in if they let you into the canyon, even if you had to wait until 130PM.

Having said this about Snowbird parking, I have heard the theory that this year's free reservation system is a good practice session for implementation in future years of paid parking at Snowbird. I like free parking, but recognize a place like LCC might not always be able to handle it and that paid parking is one way to throttle the number of cars going up the canyon on any given day. Also, if you get really good at the reservation game, which I admit I'm not, you can get reservations almost anytime you want if you religiously follow the app and such.

 

[PAabe]

I feel like I have been at bit negative in this thread so I do want to say, it is great to see so many people skiing this year, including at local and independent hills which may have had it rough for a while. I am happy the guys at my local ski and bike shop made some money this year. And it is also cool to see more people taking interest in cross country skiing. Also skiing was all things considered fairly normal relative to other weird stuff going on right now.

And thank God we were able to have the lifts spin this whole season, unlike the Europeans and the Canucks

 

[jimk]

I feel like I have been at bit negative in this thread so I do want to say, it is great to see so many people skiing this year, including at local and independent hills which may have had it rough for a while. I am happy the guys at my local ski and bike shop made some money this year. And it is also cool to see more people taking interest in cross country skiing. Also skiing was all things considered fairly normal relative to other weird stuff going on right now.

And thank God we were able to have the lifts spin this whole season, unlike the Europeans and the Canucks

Yes, we've been lucky there was no big outbreak at a ski area this winter that might have triggered an industry-wide shutdown. I just took my wife for her second vax shot today. It;s a very positive thing physically AND psychologically. It seems like we've turned the corner on covid!

 

[ss20]

+1 on can't wait to boot up inside a lodge again. At the car sucks most days in the NE and I have a system dialed in with mats, chairs...even made a small clothes line in the back of my car for hanging up the face mask/gloves during lunch...still sucks. I also think the time saved by booting up at the car is moot when you have to huff back to it for lunch, when in a normal year you could pop off your skis and be at a table enjoying food in 30 seconds in a base lodge. Not a big deal for places where parking is close, but at a place like Sugarbush or Jiminy Peak it sucks a ton. Also your boots will thank you not going to/from the car on asphalt/concrete.

Also +1 on raising season pass prices. I'd be happy to pay $1000-$1500 for an Ikon pass because the on-hill experience would be soooo much better if you eliminated the 20...30...maybe 40% of the pass base that wouldn't pay those prices.