Pico Will Not Operate 7 Days A Week

[ski_resort_observer]

One of Wa's bread and butter crowds would be afterwork mon-fri crowds, so that's not going to happen anytime soon.

I was thinking today about a way to turn Pico into a revenue creator, not loser, that would make everyone happy and get it back open 7 days a week. Night Skiing?!?!? K draws a good ski week crowd, and not everyone is a "apres ski type". Some people like to keep on skiing! Now, where they are operating K and Pico seperately, Powdr could potentially make their lift ticket money off the ski week crowds during the day a K, and have 10% of them show up at Pico at 4 pm forking over yet another $25 or so for night skiing and ON MOUNTAIN beer purchases?!?! Is the Rutland area not getting built up as well, creating a local mon-fri night skiing crowd?? Is there somewhere else around there offering night skiing or not? Feel free to shoot holes in my idea if I'm missing something, I'm not up on K region demographics.

I think that would be a great idea but from Powdr's bottom line mentality the cost of putting in the lights won't help the profit margin they want to make in the first couple of years.

They have stated several times that they need to turn a profit to be able to invest and improve kmart. No profits, no improvements.

 

[nycskier]

One of Wa's bread and butter crowds would be afterwork mon-fri crowds, so that's not going to happen anytime soon.

I was thinking today about a way to turn Pico into a revenue creator, not loser, that would make everyone happy and get it back open 7 days a week. Night Skiing?!?!? K draws a good ski week crowd, and not everyone is a "apres ski type". Some people like to keep on skiing! Now, where they are operating K and Pico seperately, Powdr could potentially make their lift ticket money off the ski week crowds during the day a K, and have 10% of them show up at Pico at 4 pm forking over yet another $25 or so for night skiing and ON MOUNTAIN beer purchases?!?! Is the Rutland area not getting built up as well, creating a local mon-fri night skiing crowd?? Is there somewhere else around there offering night skiing or not? Feel free to shoot holes in my idea if I'm missing something, I'm not up on K region demographics.

Totally agree! I always thought Pico would be perfect place for night skiing and even night tubbing. I even mentioned this in the missed opportunities thread. Adding night skiing to Pico and maybe building a new bar/night club (a 2nd Wobbly) in the parking lot could really make it an attraction.

 

[snowman]

I think that would be a great idea but from Powdr's bottom line mentality the cost of putting in the lights won't help the profit margin they want to make in the first couple of years.

They have stated several times that they need to turn a profit to be able to invest and improve kmart. No profits, no improvements.

Well...shutting down Pico Tues, Wed's for a year or 2 might be what they need to do to save enough money to put lights on 3 or 4 trails and bring it back 7 days a week + nights. Lights are the only thing I can think of to dramatically change the revenue stream there, and since how they don't have them yet, no point losing cash in the meantime.

 

[snoseek]

maybe areas like cannon, wildcat, saddleback, ect should close midweek also, because i'm pretty sure they are not making much for profit.

why do hotels bother to have dining? most are budgeted to lose. maybe because any decent hotel will make more money overall if they provide the services people want. More services=more prestige=more $$$. Does anyone get my drift?

 

[marcski]

Agreed about night skiing....or anything ..they need to find their niche. I mentioned this earlier in this thread whether its night skiing or local HS racing (or both!) or anything. Just something. At least give it a try and then they could honestly say, hey, we tried, didn't work that way, we have to close on less profitable (or none at all) days to keep spinning the lifts at all. This seems to be just another slap in the face to the areas' long time skiers.

 

[snowman]

Totally agree! I always thought Pico would be perfect place for night skiing and even night tubbing. I even mentioned this in the missed opportunities thread. Adding night skiing to Pico and maybe building a new bar/night club (a 2nd Wobbly) in the parking lot could really make it an attraction.

Ok, no need to get all crazy though and start building K village at Pico :grin: And when I said ON MOUNTAIN beer sales, I meant at the lodge bar, not tub girls on the mountain, before anyone gets that idea, as great as that would be, lol :-D

 

[snowman]

I mentioned this earlier in this thread whether its night skiing or local HS racing (or both!) or anything. .

Ooops, I missed that in the sea of responses. I thought I was the first to mention this idea and was wondering why no one else mentioned it. I figured there must have been something else close night skiing wise that I didn't know about and was waiting to get shot down. I guess I just elaborated on why it would be a good idea more than you did.

 

[snowman]

I was just familiarizing myself with their trail map and am even more sold on the night skiing idea. Lighting 2000 vert is daunting, but I didn't know they had a split quad set up. The place friggin' screams night skiing. How much vert is there off the lower quad and how much off the knubs knoll lift? I'd light trails off either/both of those. I'm thinking the lower quad is 1200 vert. Nice night skiing I love night skiing myself. It's sometimes a deal breaker on one place vs. another. If one has night skiing or night skiing nearby, and the other leaves you sitting in the woods for 16 hours listening to the snow guns roaring, I go for the night skiing. Night skiing has the potential to make Pico much more profitable and even drive more destination biz to K.

 

[andyzee]

I'm getting tired of hearing something, that being that Powdr needs to make money at K before they can invest in K. Since when does a company take a product that has been made mediocre by it's previous owners, make it more mediocre, raise the price and expect to turn a profit? To make matters worst, I'm seeing a lot of people trying to rationalize this idea. I'm not a rich man so I may not know what I'm talking about, but I was under the impression that you need to invest in a product, especially when there is so much competition around, make it as attractive as possible and then market it.

 

[riverc0il]

JiminyG talkin his crazy talk again. So you thinkin being open only 5 days a week is going to help property values for those folks who own condos at the base of Pico?

HPD speaks some truth. Property values certainly are not going up after this announcement. And folks renting out condos will certainly loose some mid-week revenue. Sure, you can just say people can ski Kmart instead, but if they are skiing Kmart then they are probably going to find properties and condos closer to Kmart than Pico. The base areas are not exactly right next to each other.

 

[threecy]

By that logic most resorts would not operate mid-week. This is just another piece in the continuing trend for Powdr in which the bean counters are driving the decisions instead customer service.

If Powdr had any clue about customer service, ie meeting or exceeding customer expectations rather than cutting them off at the knees, they would honor Pico passes at kmart on Tues/Wednesday on par, not making them pay $35. If the numbers are so low then it would not cost them much to do this. A small price to pay for a return in good will.

Most resorts don't have a much larger, more superior sister resort 5 minutes away.

I think people need to understand that this is the ski BUSINESS, not the ski CHARITY. You can't just throw away money, especially after you just spent $80M+.

 

[riverc0il]

A small price to pay for a return in good will.

Good will means an awful lot in business. I make good will a top priority in my operations and will gladly sacrifice short term profitability for long term dedicated customers who appreciate doing business with my operation. That is the thing that concerns me most about this trend (and lets start talking about this Pico thing as a general trend instead of an isolated incident because it is part of a trend) which is yet another issue that has generated ill will and given people the impression that the new ownership is cutting back on services, raising prices, and giving anything back to the customers. You could argue the cheaper season pass at Pico is giving something back but not for nothing they took away three days of potential skiing. Empty or not, those three days meant something to quite a few people that took advantage and what ski area isn't empty mid-week? My main argument is that while I think Powdr is making some great financial and business decisions, I think they are reaching the point that they are pissing too many customers (and potential customers) off with cut throat decisions. The topic of taking over for another business is interesting because I am involved in such an operational issue. We are trying to over deliver and increase services while maintaining prices. This is an exceptional time for Powdr to change the face of Killington/Pico and earn back business and customers that ASC lost. Will they squander the opportunity? This is a trend, will it change or will the cost cutting continue at the expense of the consumer? If it continues, will they loose said consumers to the competition that offers more (even if the competition charges more?)? These are the bigger issues at stake here and only time will tell if Powdr played their cards right or not.

 

[andyzee]

Most resorts don't have a much larger, more superior sister resort 5 minutes away.

I think people need to understand that this is the ski BUSINESS, not the ski CHARITY. You can't just throw away money, especially after you just spent $80M+.

As in my above post, you need to spend money in order to make money. If you can't afford to market a superior product in a highly competitive region, perhaps you shouldn't have spent 80 million.

 

[threecy]

As in my above post, you need to spend money in order to make money. If you can't afford to market a superior product in a highly competitive region, perhaps you shouldn't have spent 80 million.

Every indication I've heard is that they will be working to rebuild a superior product at Killington (and boy do they have a long way to go, but I digress). Having Pico open Tues/Wed non-holiday does nothing for SP/Powdr except lose money. When you have a massive area like Killington next door, why compete with it when your skier visits are the lowest?

The closest NE areas have come to cracking the midweek non-holiday code is to pull in school groups/school racing programs/get (sub)urban skiers. This doesn't work all that well with an empty, run down, 2,000 vertical step child with no night skiing. If you think SP/Powdr is getting bad press now, see what it would be like if they tried to get night skiing approval.

The limited Pico season pass deal sounds more than fair to me - if I lived in that area and liked Pico, I'd jump at the offer.

5 days a week under SP/Powdr is a better scenario than 7 days a week for a bankrupt ASC.

 

[andyzee]

Every indication I've heard is that they will be working to rebuild a superior product at Killington (and boy do they have a long way to go, but I digress). Having Pico open Tues/Wed non-holiday does nothing for SP/Powdr except lose money. When you have a massive area like Killington next door, why compete with it when your skier visits are the lowest?

The closest NE areas have come to cracking the midweek non-holiday code is to pull in school groups/school racing programs/get (sub)urban skiers. This doesn't work all that well with an empty, run down, 2,000 vertical step child with no night skiing. If you think SP/Powdr is getting bad press now, see what it would be like if they tried to get night skiing approval.

The limited Pico season pass deal sounds more than fair to me - if I lived in that area and liked Pico, I'd jump at the offer.

5 days a week under SP/Powdr is a better scenario than 7 days a week for a bankrupt ASC.

Personally I have no argument with the 5 day schedule for Pico, I agree with you. I'm looking at the overall picture and it bothers me when they say the need to make money to spend money. I feel the need to offer a superior product and in order to do so, they need to spend now. If they don't have the investment capital to make Killington a superior product, then I don't believe they should have purchased it.

 

[threecy]

Personally I have no argument with the 5 day schedule for Pico, I agree with you. I'm looking at the overall picture and it bothers me when they say the need to make money to spend money. I feel the need to offer a superior product and in order to do so, they need to spend now. If they don't have the investment capital to make Killington a superior product, then I don't believe they should have purchased it.

In the ski industry it's wise to spend what you have whenever possible. If SP/Powdr went out and borrowed a bunch of money for improvements, they'd be making the same mistake that sunk ASC.

Clean up the mess you have first, then build on it.

 

[threecy]

I want the most superior product at the lowest cost, why should my attitude be any different than anyother business out there .. You want my money? Earn it...

Nothing wrong with that...for that reason I haven't skied Killington in awhile, nor do I plan to anytime soon.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Powdr sold Alpine Meadows a couple of months before they bought kmart so they have some cash. In view of the need to fix kmart 3m they are spending their first year is chump change considering that Sugarbush is in the middle of a 60+m improvement, Stowe is spending over 100m and Okemo opened Jackson Gore a couple of years ago. instead of moving forward they are falling further behind in my view.

 

[Vinny]

Personally I have no argument with the 5 day schedule for Pico, I agree with you. I'm looking at the overall picture and it bothers me when they say the need to make money to spend money. I feel the need to offer a superior product and in order to do so, they need to spend now. If they don't have the investment capital to make Killington a superior product, then I don't believe they should have purchased it.

That's a very valid point. It just doesn't make sense to cut back on operations/services immediately after the purchase of a service business. Pico doesn't look like a potential cash cow by any means, although I really don't know for sure. My bet is that they're going to bleed Pico, and it won't be under their umbrella in 5 years or so. Having said that, it also doesn't look like there are any terrific plans for Killington. So, although I'm certain these guys and gals know more than I do about what they bought, it's a mystery to me how their long term plan is going to be good for them and the skiers. IMHO, the way it's rolling out, this is looking like a future bust.

 

[threecy]

Powdr sold Alpine Meadows a couple of months before they bought kmart so they have some cash. In view of the need to fix kmart 3m they are spending their first year is chump change considering that Sugarbush is in the middle of a 60+m improvement, Stowe is spending over 100m and Okemo opened Jackson Gore a couple of years ago. instead of moving forward they are falling further behind in my view.

Mt. Snow is getting mass praise for putting in 2.5m in snowmaking.