Powder days...are you worthy?

[Geoff]

The untracked stuff in the woods seemed pretty light and fluffy, but it may have just been that it was lighter and fluffier than the wind and skier packed powder we were finding on the rest of the mountain. It was probably relatively dense all around.

At Killington, the wind got at pretty much everything overnight. On Wednesday, the snow was still nice 'n fluffy.

Here is a set of clips of me on Wednesday afternoon.

http://home.comcast.net/~geoffdevine/Geoff28Jan2009.wmv

On Thursday, even spots that don't usually get much wind like Patsy's Panties were pretty heavy from the wind packing.

 

[mister moose]

At Killington, the wind got at pretty much everything overnight. On Wednesday, the snow was still nice 'n fluffy.

Here is a set of clips of me on Wednesday afternoon.

http://home.comcast.net/~geoffdevine/Geoff28Jan2009.wmv

On Thursday, even spots that don't usually get much wind like Patsy's Panties were pretty heavy from the wind packing.

Hey, this is a commercial site, don't I get royalties or something?

Those were a good 2 days.

For those who have yet to slay the powder monster, here's a few thoughts:

Can you short swing down the fall line?
Are you comfortable with moderate speed?
Can you ski icy patches well, ie handle the transition from glare ice to softer piles of snow and back to ice?
Do you ski fairly centered?
Can you modulate from slightly forward to slighty back?
Are you aware of your weight distribution side to side? Can you adjust it mid turn?

If the answer to any of those is no, practice more. Then when the powder day arrives you will have far better tools to work with. If you are weak on the above skills I think you will have a very tough time getting the hang of it. Powder is fluid, dynamic, you are in it instead of on it. I wouldn't say it is easy though, witness the large number of people that avoid it or are frustrated by it.

That said, powder skiing is a lot like kissing. You just have to jump in and be willing to fail for a while.

Now stay out of my line!!!

 

[polski]

Got my first taste of powder on a high school trip to Whiteface, (gulp) 30 years ago, when two teachers who were the group chaperones urged me to join them ducking a rope up top and skiing a foot and a half of fresh for the last run of the day. Learned the hard way but quickly not to make sharp turns and to lean back a bit. (Also experienced a liftie coming after us swinging a broom at the bottom of the trail and telling us we were banned from that lift the next day .... so sorry, we said, knowing we were heading home that night anyway.)

Despite that early experience though, inexplicably it's only been in the last three seasons that I've become addicted to powder, or, more generally, to anything more challenging than wide slopes groomed flat. The epiphany came on my first visit to MRG. I've since learned that powder isn't always what it's cracked up to be (like when it's wind-loaded to more the consistency of styrofoam) -- sometimes chowder can actually be more enjoyable, and even then often the skiing is a lot more technical than simply leaning back and keeping the tips up (mister moose's post nails it). Assuming we're not in the wrong part of a freeze-thaw cycle, I'll seek out ungroomed trails or edges and I'm learning to ski glades. Yeah I'm a little bit of a snow snob now -- it's a matter of picking my spots, of not spending finite resources to drive far and ski nothing but corduroy/boilerplate. But I don't look down at people who enjoy that -- different strokes and all that. For me it's all about the challenge and constantly trying to improve my skills ... and when things are right, experiencing the incomparable feeling of floating silently on a cloud.

Am I worthy? Sometimes yes, and I'm working hard on those other times.

 

[billski]

(Also experienced a liftie coming after us swinging a broom at the bottom of the trail and telling us we were banned from that lift the next day .

He was just ticked that you got the goods before he did

 

[riverc0il]

Good comments on the wind loaded stuff. That is when a wide fat powder board is to die for. 90+ skis slay the wind load while people on -90 are flailing around (for the most part). It is a rare case in which it is definitely the arrow and not the archer that is the issue.

Powder does not take long to learn to ski well. But you are not going to learn very well if you only get one or two powder days a year and they are generally the chewed up loose snow variety that is much more forgiving than untracked in which tip dive will kill you. Unlike on groomers, you can't commit cardinal faults in powder or else you are going down. But at least you won't go down as hard :lol:

So, I would also propose that most people can't ski powder well because they hardly ever ski it at all. Also, by the time most people get to the mountains, the conditions are "powdery" rather than untracked which makes skiing a lot more manageable for most folks.

 

[Geoff]

Good comments on the wind loaded stuff. That is when a wide fat powder board is to die for. 90+ skis slay the wind load while people on -90 are flailing around (for the most part). It is a rare case in which it is definitely the arrow and not the archer that is the issue.

My everyday skis are 86mm under foot. Mister Moose owes me a clip he took of me on Pipe Dream on Thursday where I was really struggling. The whole thing was heavy wind slab. I did about half of it using the Highway Star "Mandatory GS Turn" technique. In the back seat just hoping nothing ripped a ski off. I felt really off-center and I'd like to see the video to see how far out I really was. Somehow, I don't think another 4mm would have mattered.

In the summer sales, I may pick up something stupid-wide.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

In the summer sales, I may pick up something stupid-wide.

My 110 underfoot Nordica Blowers were great in the Jackson Hole powder and handled crud and windslab really well...in light and dry powder, my race skis are fine but when it's heavier or tracked out..wider is better..

 

[smootharc]

Everyone is a powder skier...

....they just don't know it. Bad for them, good for me.

This is a good thread, as the "psychology of powder" and "powder fear" is shown to be such a huge mental hurdle for so many people. People who routinely ski tough eastern hardpack and icy conditions (Waaaaayyyy harder than pow) routinely make a big deal out of trying then failing in powder. Interesting.

Back in the day, we with 78mm under foot thought we had the best powder/crud tools on the market. It helped that they were, for me at least, 207cm's.

Advice ?

1) get on pow. point down fall line. go. don't turn. just gently bounce up and down, centered side to side and fore and aft. Feel balanced and centered. Same as if the slope was freshly groomed.

2) When you're nicely rolling along (and not before then), at one with gravity, start making a relaxed turn. Then another. If going gets boggy/tough, straighten out and regain momentum. It shouldn't feel like a struggle. Start going too fast, then link those relaxed turns just a bit faster...use your powder brakes.

3) Smile and yell "Woohoo". You're a powder skier now. At the bottom, look back at your tracks....your own personal Ninth Symphony. You are no longer afraid.

Don't fear it. Don't over think it. Don't worry about blower vs. denser. Don't worry what you have under foot. Just ski it. It's pow ! And it's as EASY as you want it to be !

My .02

 

[St. Bear]

This is a good thread, as the "psychology of powder" and "powder fear" is shown to be such a huge mental hurdle for so many people. People who routinely ski tough eastern hardpack and icy conditions (Waaaaayyyy harder than pow) routinely make a big deal out of trying then failing in powder. Interesting.

It's been said a few times, but this thread has become so long that it bears repeating. The #1 biggest deterrent (or fear if you really want to be that condescending) about powder skiing for most people on the east coast is the lack of experience. Powder days are so few and far between that you're lucky if you're skiing in fresh powder more than a few times a season. The average person can't drop what they're doing in the middle of the week and go skiing, so the stars and moon have to align and give a powder day on a weekend, which of course draws everybody else out to the mountain as well. The East Coast mountains are small (when compared to the West Coast), get tracked out quickly and the powder is gone.

Lets not make this out to be more than it is. If you're not used to doing something, of course you're going to be uncomfortable.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Powder days are so few and far between that you're lucky if you're skiing in fresh powder more than a few times a season.

Speak for yourself.
It all depends on how close to the Mtns you are and what your flexability is. I get a lot of powder and so does riverc0il (and several others on this board). The east has plenty of powder days and just because it doesn't snow every weekend, doesn't mean there hasn't been a decent powder day at some point during the week.
It definitely doesn't snow every weekend out west. But your typical trip to the Rockies is for a least a week and it is bound to snow at least a couple of days during that week. This is no different for the snow belt areas of northern NE. However, many trips to New England are 2-3 day trips with many of those being in Southern NE which has a lower likelyhood of good powder.

In short, in order to become better at it, you have to be commited to skiing powder when you have it (East or West). Not everyone you see at Vail is skiing the back bowl poweder staches. Most people are hanging out on the front side groomers. Just because you ski in Colorado a few times doesn't translate to being a powder skier (I have a long story of someone bragging about skiing powder in Aspen and then floundering in 10 inches of powder at Burke).
There are a lot of EXCELLENT East Coast powder skiers, and they earned it.

 

[St. Bear]

Speak for yourself.

I am speaking for myself, and a majority of people on the east coast. You said yourself that ....

It all depends on how close to the Mtns you are and what your flexability is.

Well, the average person does not live close to the mountains and isn't all that flexible with less than a week's notice.

I agree with most of your points, because they are the same points I was trying to make. In order to become a better powder skier, you must ski powder conditions more than a couple times a year, but it's not practical to drop everything and go skiing everytime it snows. So for the average skier, the storms have to line up on a weekend that they're available, which is rare.

 

[rocojerry]

it's not practical to drop everything and go skiing everytime it snows.

it isn't? I practically take all my vacation days on snow

 

[St. Bear]

it isn't? I practically take all my vacation days on snow

Well, 2 weeks notice for PTO is pretty standard. Try lining up your vacation days around a weather report 2 weeks in advance and see how well that turns out. Just look at the "Storm of Century" that we were supposed to get this week.

Look. I'm not saying that it's impossible and can't be done. All I'm saying is that most people (myself included) have a hard time learning how to ski powder because they are stuck at work while everyone else on this board has taken the day off and gone skiing.

 

[bvibert]

Look. I'm not saying that it's impossible and can't be done. All I'm saying is that most people (myself included) have a hard time learning how to ski powder because they are stuck at work while everyone else on this board has taken the day off and gone skiing.

This is definitely a good point and I'd say it represents the majority of the skiing public. The folks that have easy access to powder, or are willing to make the sacrifices to get there are the exception, not the norm.

It's a lot easier to blow off a day of work to ski powder when you're within an hour from the mountain. Try doing that when the mountains are 4+ hours away, in good weather, and you have a family waiting at home for you. Sure, you can pull it off occasionally, but not consistently.

 

[gmcunni]

The folks that have easy access to powder, or are willing to make the sacrifices to get there are the exception, not the norm.

It's a lot easier to blow off a day of work to ski powder when you're within an hour from the mountain.

i think of it more as a choice in lifestyle. some people place a greater emphasis on certain aspects of their life. Like skiing? then live near a mountain. Like boating? Live on the water.

i grumble when i hear/see people dropping everything to catch a great powder day mid-week. reality is for me that i choose to live in Southern CT, placing more value on friends/family/career. my brother on the other hand dropped everything and moved to Utah at an early age so he could ski 120 days a year.

its all good. i'll drive an hour tonight to catch 3 inches of fresh CT pow and i'll be happy the whole time!

 

[bvibert]

i think of it more as a choice in lifestyle. some people place a greater emphasis on certain aspects of their life. Like skiing? then live near a mountain. Like boating? Live on the water.

i grumble when i hear/see people dropping everything to catch a great powder day mid-week. reality is for me that i choose to live in Southern CT, placing more value on friends/family/career. my brother on the other hand dropped everything and moved to Utah at an early age so he could ski 120 days a year.

its all good. i'll drive an hour tonight to catch 3 inches of fresh CT pow and i'll be happy the whole time!

You're 100% correct, it is lifestyle choices. If someone really wanted to ski powder on a regular basis all they need to do is move and get a job that allows them to do so. The problem is that would drastically affect most other aspects of their life.

 

[Greg]

its all good. i'll drive an hour tonight to catch 3 inches of fresh CT pow and i'll be happy the whole time!

I knew there was a reason I like you Gary. I have the same attitude.

 

[bvibert]

its all good. i'll drive an hour tonight to catch 3 inches of fresh CT pow and i'll be happy the whole time!

I knew there was a reason I like you Gary. I have the same attitude.

If I didn't have family obligations tonight I'd be right there with you guys.

 

[gmcunni]

You're 100% correct, it is lifestyle choices. If someone really wanted to ski powder on a regular basis all they need to do is move and get a job that allows them to do so. The problem is that would drastically affect most other aspects of their life.

IMHO, "problem" might be too strong, rather a "compromise". I will give up A to get B.

that said, i've cursed you and greg for you ability, should you choose to do it, to run over to sundown for a quick hit. for me, it is minimum 3 hour investment to go skiing, and that gets me less than an hour on the snow.

 

[JD]

You're 100% correct, it is lifestyle choices. If someone really wanted to ski powder on a regular basis all they need to do is move and get a job that allows them to do so. The problem is that would drastically affect most other aspects of their life.

Powder is only one reason in a long list, and I totally agree. The drastically affected aspects of my life was income. If you can make that work, I see no other drawbacks to living in the Mtns vs. visiting them.