Season Pass insurance

[skiNEwhere]

Do you have it? Not sure of the differences from resort to resort. All cover medical reasons, but I've seen some cover loss of employment as well.

I didn't get it last year, but I decided to play it safe and get it this season. Seems to fall in the realm of "if you don't get it, you'll need it, if you get it, you won't need it" As is the case with pretty much any insurance :/

 

[VTKilarney]

I don't get it. Since I didn't need the money in the first place I'd rather self-insure.

 

[dlague]

First of all what does it cost? I am typically the type that will skip that - it is spent money at this time - so ....... I will just make more!

 

[thetrailboss]

Snowbird offered it for a 6% premium per pass. I read the policy and felt that it would be hard to succeed on getting a claim.

 

[VTKilarney]

The policies I am familiar with refund your money on a pro-rated basis as the season goes on. So the idea that insurance gives you a full refund if you get hurt is only valid on the first day of the season.

Let's use Snowbird as an example. They charge 6% for insurance. Assuming that injuries are spread out evenly (a big assumption since skier visits are probably not spread out evenly), the average time of injury will be the middle point of the season. So, therefore, the average payout is half of the price of the pass. Thus, insurance costs 12% of the expected payout. The "average" person would have to collect every 8.333 years just to break even. In other words, they would have to suffer a significant enough injury to wipe out their season every 8.333 years.

I'm no wizard with numbers, so I fully admit that there may be a flaw in my logic.

My suspicion is that if I were in my 60's or above, it might be a fair deal. I'd have to look at injury rates by age.

 

[thetrailboss]

The policies I am familiar with refund your money on a pro-rated basis as the season goes on. So the idea that insurance gives you a full refund if you get hurt is only valid on the first day of the season.

Let's use Snowbird as an example. They charge 6% for insurance. Assuming that injuries are spread out evenly (a big assumption since skier visits are probably not spread out evenly), the average time of injury will be the middle point of the season. So, therefore, the average payout is half of the price of the pass. Thus, insurance costs 12% of the expected payout. The "average" person would have to collect every 8.333 years just to break even. In other words, they would have to suffer a significant enough injury to wipe out their season every 8.333 years.

I'm no wizard with numbers, so I fully admit that there may be a flaw in my logic.

My suspicion is that if I were in my 60's or above, it might be a fair deal. I'd have to look at injury rates by age.

Snowbird is using it through a third-party vendor. It is indeed based upon a pro-rate of the season that has passed. What concerned me also was that the policy mainly was intended for "vacations" and was tailored more for a person that has booked a trip and would be coming out for that trip. Thus it covered things like weather delays, lost luggage, etc. That's not really appropriate for a season pass IMHO. It did provide insurance for loss of job (personally I'd ski more) and injury (so long as the injury didn't occur on said "trip"). That made me think that they might have a loophole so that if you got injured skiing then you'd be SOL.

 

[VTKilarney]

There is one thing you can say with near certainty: If the insurance is being offered by a for-profit company (or even a non-profit with administrative expenses), it is cheaper for the average person to self insure.

But nobody is assured that they are average. Thus, people are willing to take the risk in the hope that they will beat the odds and come out ahead.

 

[skiNEwhere]

I don't get what you mean by "self-insure"

If you spend $60 on a $1,000 season pass and blow out your ACL the first day out, how else are you recouping your money?

 

[VTKilarney]

I don't get what you mean by "self-insure"

If you spend $60 on a $1,000 season pass and blow out your ACL the first day out, how else are you recouping your money?

If you blow out your ACL after the first day of the season you won't recoup your $1,000. And if you make it through the season without blowing out your ACL how are you going to get that $60 back?

Technically it is not self-insuring. Money is not being set aside on an actuarial basis. A more accurate phrase would be "assuming the risk."

The point is that, statistically speaking, insuring against the risk is more expensive than assuming the risk yourself. Therefore, if you can afford the loss (and why would you buy a season pass with money that you can't afford to lose?), it is more prudent to assume the risk rather than taking the insurance. Paying for insurance is like gambling in a casino. Some people will walk away winners, but on average the gambler will be a loser.

 

[skiMEbike]

Insurance? Really?
I consider insurance for things that are necessities (home/life/health), and/or for such things that require a limit (protection) to financial investments or exposures. IMO ski pass doesn't really fall in that category....Furthermore, the two times something like this happened (pregnancy, ACL), the mountain (Boyne) was happy to work with us to give a prorated refund or apply a credit to the following year season pass.

 

[skiNEwhere]

If you blow out your ACL after the first day of the season you won't recoup your $1,000. And if you make it through the season without blowing out your ACL how are you going to get that $60 back?

Technically it is not self-insuring. Money is not being set aside on an actuarial basis. A more accurate phrase would be "assuming the risk."

The point is that, statistically speaking, insuring against the risk is more expensive than assuming the risk yourself. Therefore, if you can afford the loss (and why would you buy a season pass with money that you can't afford to lose?), it is more prudent to assume the risk rather than taking the insurance. Paying for insurance is like gambling in a casino. Some people will walk away winners, but on average the gambler will be a loser.

Huh?

I'm looking at Vail's insurance. You'd get the price of the season pass back, minus the cost of that lift ticket.

http://www.snow.com/info/passinsurance.aspx#/Coverage

Obviously you wouldn't get your $60 premium back. I figured that was a given, otherwise the insurance industry would be unprofitable.

 

[thetrailboss]

Insurance? Really?
I consider insurance for things that are necessities (home/life/health), and/or for such things that require a limit (protection) to financial investments or exposures. IMO ski pass doesn't really fall in that category....Furthermore, the two times something like this happened (pregnancy, ACL), the mountain (Boyne) was happy to work with us to give a prorated refund or apply a credit to the following year season pass.

+1. That's been my experience as well.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[VTKilarney]

Huh?

I'm looking at Vail's insurance. You'd get the price of the season pass back, minus the cost of that lift ticket.

http://www.snow.com/info/passinsurance.aspx#/Coverage

Obviously you wouldn't get your $60 premium back. I figured that was a given, otherwise the insurance industry would be unprofitable.

Vail's is somewhat different in that they pro-rate it based on the number of days you have skied, and not the number of days that have passed in the ski season. Nonetheless, they pro-rate it. That was my point. Depending on how much they deduct per day, you could wind up getting injured during the latter part of the season and get absolutely nothing back.

In 2012/2013 the daily rate was $70 per day. Ski 15 days and you get NOTHING back if the pass cost $1,000. In other words, you are only covered for the first 14 days you ski.

Trust me. The insurance company is not in the business of its customers coming out ahead.

 

[steamboat1]

Pass insurance is free with a Killington pass. You get a full refund if the pass is not used before some date in mid December (forget exactly). After that it's pro-rated by either date or amount of times the pass was used. They started this policy last year, before that I think insurance cost 5% of the pass price. I paid it last year & got a full refund.

Message from Mike:

"Greetings Killington Season Pass Holder!

Over the past year we've been looking at all aspects of our business to ensure what's in place makes sense to all guests, especially our most valued guests - pass holders. Hopefully you've noticed some of the positive changes we made in the past 12 months, and we've got another for you right now.

We want our customers to get great value out of their season pass and encourage more to become pass holders so we took a close look at ourseason pass credit/refund policy - and have decided to make a change.

Moving forward, if a pass holder suffers an injury, gets pregnant or loses a job, to name a few, and can no longer use their season pass, we will credit a proportional amount of the purchase price based on our new Credit / Refund Policy. There is no longer a fee to buy into this policy - we are basically offering Refund Protection Option, for free to all pass holders.

You'll be receiving a refund for the Refund Protection Option you purchased along with your 2013/14 Season Pass. Refunds are being processed this week, but may take up to ten business days for you to receive. If you have questions regarding this policy or your refund, please email seasonpass@killington.com.

It is starting to get cold at night up here and the season is just around the corner. We will again be shooting to open in October if presented with the snowmaking opportunity. Stay tuned for updates.

I personally thank you for your business and your passion for our resort. We continue to look for ways to make our resorts better so feel free to email me any thoughts at msolimano@killington.com."

Sincerely,

Mike Solimano
President and General Manager

 

[marcski]

That's impressive.

 

[steamboat1]

I found Killington's refund/credit policy. Like I said (mid-Dec.) if the pass is not used you can get a full refund before Dec.15 or Dec. 31 for a Pico pass.

http://www.killington.com/site/tickets/winter_passes/passholder_faqs/credit_policy

[h=1]SEASON PASS CREDIT POLICY[/h][h=2]SEASON PASSES COVERED[/h]Killington Unlimited (all ages), Blackout and Midweek passes and Pico Mountain Unlimited Passes are covered under this credit policy.
[h=2][/h][h=2]SEASON PASS CANCELLATIONS[/h]Any season pass holder may cancel their pass and receive a full credit if they make their request prior to December 15, 2014 (Killington Passes) or December 31, 2014 (Pico Passes) if the pass hasn’t yet been used for winter lift access. For passes that include previous season spring or summer access, the cost of the one-day ticket for each day’s use will be deducted from the credit amount.
[h=2][/h][h=2]SEASON PASS TERMINATIONS[/h]Any season pass holder may terminate their season pass and receive a pro-rated credit based on the schedule below if they have a change of circumstance not of their own choosing which prevents them from using their pass for at least 30 consecutive days. Requests for terminations will be considered on a case by case basis and are at the sole discretion of Killington/Pico but are most typically issued for injuries, illnesses, pregnancy, job loss and relocation. All requests for terminations must be made prior to April 15th. There will be no credits issued for changes in circumstance which occur on or after March 15th. Supporting documentation may be requested prior to approving a credit; failure to provide documentation requested may result in the denial of credit regardless of the reason for seeking a credit.

Termination Credit Schedule
Change in Circumstance Occurs Prior to:	Purchase Price Credit Amount:
December 15, 2014	75%
January 15, 2015	60%
February 15, 2015	40%
March 15, 2015	20%

Credits will not be provided for the reasons listed below which is not an all inclusive list:​

• A change in circumstance that does not prevent the pass holder from skiing/riding for less than 30 days
• Injury or illness as a result of skiing or snowboarding on closed trails or by going beyond the ski area boundary causing a search to be conducted
• Lack of snow, weather conditions, or trail/lift closures
• Loss of pass by family member or friend for reasons noted above or for reasons in violation of the Season Pass Agreement.

[h=2][/h][h=2]REQUESTS FOR CREDITS[/h]

All requests for credits must be made by April 15, 2015. Requests may be made in person at the Snowshed or Pico Sales Center during normal business, by emailing seasonpass@killington.com or mailing the season pass office at Killington/Pico Season Pass Office, 4763 Killington Road, Killington, VT 05751.​

[h=2]RECEIVING YOUR CREDIT[/h]

All credits will be issued in the form of a Killington/Pico gift card which will be valid for three years from the date of issuance. Optionally, the recipient of a credit may choose a refund but will have a fee of 5% of the total amount to be credited deducted from the credit amount. Refunds for passes purchased by cash or check will only be refunded via check and may take up to two weeks for processing from the date the request is approved and processed. Refunds for passes purchased by credit card will only be refunded to the original credit card used to make the purchase and may take up to ten business days for processing from the date the request is approved and processed.​