Ski Cars

[jaywbigred]

Saturn VUE might not be a bad choice either, good on gas(if you behave), and plenty of room when you utilize the roof rack.

Anyone know how the VUE handles in the snow? I've always liked it and thought it was a lot of car for the money.

 

[drewfidelic]

For a minivan, the Toyota Sienna is f*&#ing awesome. It drives like a Camry. OK, that on it's own isn't all that impressive, since the Camry is boring as anything. But, compared with any other minivan I've driven (the various Chrysler and GM ones, albeit not the Honda Odyssey), the Sienna is in a class of its own. It's not exciting or fun to drive by any stretch of the imagination, but it is impeccably well-designed. If I was buying an on-road SUV or minivan, the Sienna would be one of the top choices.

For anyone considering a Matrix, take a look at the Pontiac Vibe. It's the same exact car, but often a bit cheaper because it carries the Pontiac badge instead of a Toyota. (The one Matrix I drove felt very underpowered. I suspect having the 5-speed manual transmission makes a big difference over the 4 speed auto.)

But when thinking about a ski car, can you not consider a Subaru? It's the paradigmatic ski car. The new Forrester is a snazzy looking car.
________
Bondage bdsm

 

[WJenness]

Being tall and sitting in the back of most cars doesn't usually work too well for me, if it's not the head room it's the leg room. I've been tortured in the back seat of even some SUV due to lack of leg room. Luckily I don't have to ride in the back seat of cars very often. In the rare occasion that I'm riding in someone else's car I'm usually offered the front seat.

You and I probably shouldn't carpool with Sky then (unless Sky has a big car). That might not go well for us.

-w

 

[Glenn]

Anyone know how the VUE handles in the snow? I've always liked it and thought it was a lot of car for the money.

I'd imagine if it had AWD it would do just fine.

 

[BeanoNYC]

Subie wagons seem to be a popular choice amongst outdoor enthusiasts in general, skiers in particular.

+1 Best car I ever owned. Got it in February and have 20K on it already.

 

[Geoff]

My dad has the Ford Escape Hybrid in 2WD and gets around 40 MPG but he's in Flordia where they have less hills

Don't forget that dense winter air in the Northeast reduces your fuel economy dramatically. The less aerodynamic the car, the worse the impact. A Ford Escape is a totally reasonable crossover (car frame, disguised as an SUV) but I'd be amazed if you saw anything close to that MPG at 70 mph and single digits fahrenheit. For me, I've always done a very large percentage of my driving on the highway so a hybrid doesn't help my fuel burn. The added weight offsets the in-town savings. I also hold cars forever and replacing batteries in a hybrid is expensive. In a hot place like Florida, I'd be surprised if batteries lasted more than 3 years. I know people in Pheonix who get a free battery every year off warranty since they cook in the 130F weather.

 

[RootDKJ]

Don't forget that dense winter air in the Northeast reduces your fuel economy dramatically. The less aerodynamic the car, the worse the impact. A Ford Escape is a totally reasonable crossover (car frame, disguised as an SUV) but I'd be amazed if you saw anything close to that MPG at 70 mph and single digits fahrenheit. For me, I've always done a very large percentage of my driving on the highway so a hybrid doesn't help my fuel burn. The added weight offsets the in-town savings. I also hold cars forever and replacing batteries in a hybrid is expensive. In a hot place like Florida, I'd be surprised if batteries lasted more than 3 years. I know people in Pheonix who get a free battery every year off warranty since they cook in the 130F weather.

Yeah, I see about a 6-8 MPG hit in the winter. Also because the engine wants to maintain a certain temperature range the gas engine cycles on and off more in addition to the cold weather factor. The cold weather factor doesn't only affect Hybrids, all vehicles loose efficiency because of it. It seems like the cut-off point it 64 MPH. The faster an object moves, the heavier it weighs.

The weight of the batteries doesn't affect city driving at all because the engine doesn't run as often. Ford offers 100K / 8 year warranty on the batteries. My dad's is about three years old he's never had a problem. They battery has it's own HVAC system.

 

[gladerider]

we take my wify's honda '05 pilot (+ factory thule rack) to our weekend ski trips. with 2 kids and 4-6 hours of drive each way to VT, anything smaller don't cut it for us. get around 20 mpg.

 

[thinnmann]

It's moving the air that counts

The faster an object moves, the heavier it weighs.

I'm not a physicist, but I think that only happens in the LHC, not the GSP or the LIE.... :lol:

 

[muleski]

I have to cast a vote for the Subie. We have a Toyota Landcruiser, with a ton of miles on it, and I've had a series of AWD wagons {Audi S6, Volvo V70, Passat W8 4motion as of late}. We bought a 2002 H6 Outback last summer for our daughter, and with 4 snows it is THE best car that I've driven in 35+ years as a skiing driver. AbsoIute tank. I've run four studded snows on most of my cars, so I'm not saying this lightly. It's fabulous in lousy weather. I got rid of the Passat {talk about maintenance costs!} in January and bought a lightly used Legacy GT wagon, which I adore. My brother's wife just downsized from an Envoy to an Outback 3.0R. Great car. I'm amazed at how well the Subie's drive, at their utility and frankly the room inside. I have a roof box on mine, and while it's not as cavernous as the LC, it has a lot of room inside. The built quality of the cars is outstanding, and I expect that they will be Subie reliable. The 2002 has 66K on the clock, and knock on wood, looks a drives like new. Great snow cars!

 

[RootDKJ]

I'm not a physicist, but I think that only happens in the LHC, not the GSP or the LIE.... :lol:

LOL...have you been on the NJ Turnpike recently?

 

[ZYDECORICH]

have to agree with others here. i have a pilot which is great but my 1996 subie legacy wagon manual, is still going strong. 224,867 miles, original trans, only 2 exhausts, 2 clutches. been all over the northeast with it. great in snow, never been stuck.if you can find a used one with low miles grab it!

 

[playoutside]

Couple thoughts...
Looked at cars this past weekend and pretty sure the AWD Matrix only get in the 20s, not even highway was 30.

Everybody seems to love the Subies. Do any of you have long legs? I find Subie seats really uncomfortable. The seat is too short so there is no support which is miserable on long drives.

Question about snow tires... I was car shopping with my sister recently and she started by wanting AWD, no SUV. Quickly shifted to looking at FWD because of mileage and price. She is a nervous winter driver and spends a lot of time on winding, hilly, country roads. How much will snow tires help on something like a Mazda3 or Civic?

 

[snoseek]

How much will snow tires help on something like a Mazda3 or Civic?

They will do the job just fine. I got my way over Berthoud or Loveland Pass last year with a Civic well over 100 days last winter with cheap snow tires. There were countless days that were raging snowstorms and I never once got stuck. I did get stuck the winter before after a typical heavy wet New england dump but that was a couple of feet and they plowed me in.

 

[Geoff]

The faster an object moves, the heavier it weighs.

A new law of physics.

I was talking about wind resistance which is proportional to the square of your velocity. Air is denser at cold temperatures. A car with crap aerodynamics has a bigger falloff in MPG in the winter than a more aerodynamic car.

 

[RootDKJ]

But again, the cold air density affects all vehicles, not just hybrids and hybrids still maintain an edge off highway.

 

[Geoff]

Couple thoughts...
Looked at cars this past weekend and pretty sure the AWD Matrix only get in the 20s, not even highway was 30.

Everybody seems to love the Subies. Do any of you have long legs? I find Subie seats really uncomfortable. The seat is too short so there is no support which is miserable on long drives.

Question about snow tires... I was car shopping with my sister recently and she started by wanting AWD, no SUV. Quickly shifted to looking at FWD because of mileage and price. She is a nervous winter driver and spends a lot of time on winding, hilly, country roads. How much will snow tires help on something like a Mazda3 or Civic?

The AWD system on a Matrix gives you the usual big mileage penalty. Subtract 2 mpg from the FWD version of the car.

My mom and my sister have been Subaru owners since the mid-1970's. I'm 6'2" and I feel cramped in the cars. My daily driver is a Volkswagen and I fit just fine.

Snow tires:
I'm a firm believer in studless friction tires in the Northeast. Our problem here isn't so much snow... it's black ice. A Civic or a Mazda3 with modern friction tires intended for ice will out-perform a 4WD SUV with stock tires on black ice. The car is lighter so it will brake and corner better. I ran Nokians on my last VW GTI and Blizzak WS-60's on my current GTI. Ice is slippery because there is a water layer between the frozen ice and your tire. As the tire compresses the ice, it generates enough heat to melt the ice slightly and develop the water layer down to around 20F. At extremely cold temperatures, you actually get pretty good traction on ice since it doesn't develop this water layer. A studless ice tire has lots of siping cuts in it to give the water layer somewhere to go.

If you live in Colorado, you don't hit this condition so you optimize for driving in snow. Cheap snow tires work just fine. In the Northeast, you want a softer rubber compound and the siping cuts.

The only time you'll have snow driving issues in a Civic with high tech snow tires is when you bottom out in deep unplowed snow. There's really no substitute for ground clearance. With an AWD system, you can plow your way through it even if you're bottoming out. The other problem you'll have is funky handling on unplowed slop. That's due to the weight of the car and the short wheelbase. A heavy SUV will plow right through 6" of wet slop. A Civic will want to float on top of the slop. An AWD system and good tires will help some but no light, short-wheelbase car is going to feel all that stable in that condition. You won't get stuck but you'll have to slow down. Probably, everybody in front of you has already slowed down so it's not much of an issue. In my GTI, it's a challenge pulling out into the unplowed left lane during a storm. My SUV has studded Nokians and I can pull out into unplowed without thinking much about it.

Here's an image of a Blizzak WS-60. Notice all the siping cuts to channel away the water layer. You can buy a set online at Tire Rack mounted on steel wheels. Instead of rotating tires twice per year, you put on snow tires. For a Civic or a Mazda3, the small tire size won't break the bank. It gives you a huge amount of added safety margin and is much cheaper than the added purchase price and lifetime added fuel burn of an AWD system.

 

[Geoff]

But again, the cold air density affects all vehicles, not just hybrids and hybrids still maintain an edge off highway.

For my personal lifetime driving pattern, a hybrid wouldn't do much of anything. I've always had 90% highway driving either commuting or going somewhere on weekends. It's a huge win for city driving but I don't do much of that at all.

I never said anything about hybrids and cold air density. The topic was the Ford Escape and that ain't eggsactly aerodynamic. I'd expect a significant mileage drop in winter driving. A more slippery car won't see as much of an impact.

 

[fixedgrip16]

Add a vote for Suby Outbacks. Got a '99 with full winter weather package and it'll plow snow up to its axles and over the hood. There's nothing it can't handle-- 2' slush/ice in the driveway or if the main road's unplowed after a couple feet first thing in the A.M. Good vehicle for 2 people traveling (-- take headrests off and lay seats down--- quite a bit of room). One thing-- mine anyway was one of ones that had faulty headgaskets in the 2.5L. Blew the original engine at 80K but a friend found a dual port 2.2 Legacy engine with under 70K. ('94) and along with the wiring harness and other stuff converted over the engine with the same exhaust and transmission. Car has run well now for 30K and a good decision over getting a replacement 2.5 which probably would have blown in the same time frame. I think they've fixed the problem since the '99 so any 2.5 after should be fine. But the older Suby Legacy 2.2's are the best engines imaginable. Can't kill 'em. My friend who installed mine (don't do this at home or anywhere:-D) tested one one time to see if he could kill it. So he ran one for a half hour w/o oil or antifreeze and it kept on running. Shut it off and it started again. For how long or how it sounded I don't know but they're tough engines and tanks in snow.

 

[bigbog]

Here's a thought...

A $.02 thought from the boonies of Maine,
One of the Subies(ie Forrester) or something, little body & suspension lifts..autobody work around fenders to make way for larger tires. A check with your trans/gear-ratio/axles=torque...spacing(for the slightly larger tires)...will be heaven in the snow...and anywhere for anything outdoors.
*Geoff's mention of black ice is 100% accurate...ice is the demon of winter driving...

SteveD