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Ski Resort Response to COVID-19

VTKilarney

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You are going to see patients all week and then come up to VT Friday afternoon and Ski the weekend all winter? As a medical professional are you exempt from the VT travel guidelines?

Didn't Mount Snow lose a beloved Long time Employee last spring to Covid brought by Flatlanders?

He’s not exempt. If quarantining, in order to be outside you must be completely alone. (e.g., not in a ski racing program)

Wait for the attempt to justify it in 3... 2... 1...
 
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drjeff

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Yup, my constant mask wearing self, who gets tested twice a week, is going to go back and forth to my property in VT weekly, as long as I pass the same health checks my patients have to to come into my office, and I feel well, and keep testing negative and/or have received a vaccine if/when it becomes available.

And I know for sure that I am by far not the only one planning on doing this, except most others won't be doing the same regular testing and/or health checks.

After working mainly non stop since this pandemic began in what is deemed a high risk to exposure profession, with neither myself nor any of my staff contracting COVID-19 to date. You really do learn that rigid adherence to the infection control protocols, does allow one to carry on with their lives in a fairly normal way, just in smaller cohorts of people you associate with directly in person, proper mask wearing protocols and hand hygiene, and some basic other things to minimize your exposure to the places you travel to.

Will I be bringing my weekend groceries from home instead of buying them on my way to VT? Yup. Short of an URGENT restroom stop, will I be stopping along the way? Nope. If myself or any of my other family members are at all feeling questionable, will we go to VT that weekend? No. As of now my kids are fully virtual school, so they're not being exposed to their peers at all. My wife is in the same profession as I am and adheres to the same rigid protocols I do at work, and has also been COVID Negative this entire time.

Take issue with what myself and my family do if you want. It's still a free country and you are entitled to your opinion. I feel fully confident about the safety of my plans for this Winter, based on what I have been living for the past 7+ months, and the last thing I would do is jeaprodise the safety of my 2nd home community if I at all felt I would reasonably be doing so.

People are more than welcome to feel scared about COVID-19. There certainly are specific demographics of the population who should be concerned about it. There certainly has been a plethora of fear in the reporting of COVID-19. If one takes the time to critically look at the information out there, and takes a serious, approach to their own risk mitigation protocols, and is in a low risk demographic, then one's risk of contracting it is very low.

Feel free to do what you want.

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BenedictGomez

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It really sounds like few people will be able to handle skiing this coming season.

I'm with you in the minority on that. The average skier will not put up with all of this taken in concert. Especially the lodge on cold days being restricted, where the hell will they go? Straight back to their hotel rooms is my guess. The richest person in ski towns this season will be the guy who owns the liquor store.

I interpreted this to mean that they commute 1.5 hours each way - but it definitely can be read either way.

So did I. It's still horrendous. Money is important, but it's not that important, and you cant take it with you.
 

ALLSKIING

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Yup, my constant mask wearing self, who gets tested twice a week, is going to go back and forth to my property in VT weekly, as long as I pass the same health checks my patients have to to come into my office, and I feel well, and keep testing negative and/or have received a vaccine if/when it becomes available.

And I know for sure that I am by far not the only one planning on doing this, except most others won't be doing the same regular testing and/or health checks.

After working mainly non stop since this pandemic began in what is deemed a high risk to exposure profession, with neither myself nor any of my staff contracting COVID-19 to date. You really do learn that rigid adherence to the infection control protocols, does allow one to carry on with their lives in a fairly normal way, just in smaller cohorts of people you associate with directly in person, proper mask wearing protocols and hand hygiene, and some basic other things to minimize your exposure to the places you travel to.

Will I be bringing my weekend groceries from home instead of buying them on my way to VT? Yup. Short of an URGENT restroom stop, will I be stopping along the way? Nope. If myself or any of my other family members are at all feeling questionable, will we go to VT that weekend? No. As of now my kids are fully virtual school, so they're not being exposed to their peers at all. My wife is in the same profession as I am and adheres to the same rigid protocols I do at work, and has also been COVID Negative this entire time.

Take issue with what myself and my family do if you want. It's still a free country and you are entitled to your opinion. I feel fully confident about the safety of my plans for this Winter, based on what I have been living for the past 7+ months, and the last thing I would do is jeaprodise the safety of my 2nd home community if I at all felt I would reasonably be doing so.

People are more than welcome to feel scared about COVID-19. There certainly are specific demographics of the population who should be concerned about it. There certainly has been a plethora of fear in the reporting of COVID-19. If one takes the time to critically look at the information out there, and takes a serious, approach to their own risk mitigation protocols, and is in a low risk demographic, then one's risk of contracting it is very low.

Feel free to do what you want.

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Well said!

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VTKilarney

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After working mainly non stop since this pandemic began in what is deemed a high risk to exposure profession,
Well, I nailed the attempt to justify the breaking of the rule. It’s even more galling thanks to this admission.

I feel fully confident about the safety of my plans for this Winter,
You don’t get to make that call, so stop pretending that you do. The state of Vermont doesn’t feel confident and they have established rules. I looked and there is no exception for “feelz.” You (and I) may disagree with some of the rules, but that doesn’t give you a hall pass.

People are more than welcome to feel scared about COVID-19. There certainly are specific demographics of the population who should be concerned about it. There certainly has been a plethora of fear in the reporting of COVID-19. If one takes the time to critically look at the information out there, and takes a serious, approach to their own risk mitigation protocols, and is in a low risk demographic, then one's risk of contracting it is very low.
Hopefully someday you’ll stop thinking only about yourself and you’ll realize that the travel restrictions are in place to prevent you from giving the disease to someone else.

Feel free to do what you want.
That’s not how it works. There are rules that, while onerous to everyone at times, Vermonters have been generally respecting. It’s why we are doing MUCH better than Connecticut.

I don’t mean to pick on you. It’s more that I’m disappointed in you. I would have had more respect if you just admitted that you were putting yourself before others - because there is no way to slice it any other way, especially with your admission that you are at high risk to exposure. You know as well as I do that you can get a negative test result on a Friday and be contagious on a Sunday. But your kids just have to race in Vermont, I suppose.

Sadly, you are far from alone, which is why Vermont will fare much worse in ski country this winter.

You still have the chance to do the difficult, but right thing. Vermont has been very good to you. Maybe, just maybe, you could be good to Vermont and its people this one time. Give it some thought.

I’ll just leave this here as a little reminder that someone else had the same attitude as you which is why these guys are dead and won’t be grooming your kids’ race course this year.

26AA9EB4-839E-4CEC-86FD-6E20A7EC899E.jpg
 
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jimk

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Commuted 1.5 hours each way to work from 1986-1999. Not fun, but helped me afford to feed a family of six on one salary. These days there are probably over a million people in the Balt-Wash area that have commutes that long or longer.

Dr Jeff you have my blessing for your winter plans.
 

VTKilarney

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Dr Jeff you have my blessing for your winter plans.

It’s nice to know that people from much worse off areas than Vermont are happy to “bless” someone in a high risk profession break the rules and put people in a far away place at risk.

What’s a couple more dead Mt. Snow groomers when kids need to race? Those D1 scholarships are waiting. Priorities, after all.
 
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ALLSKIING

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It’s nice to know that people from much worse off areas than Vermont are happy to “bless” someone in a high risk profession break the rules and put people in a far away place at risk.

What’s a couple more dead Mt. Snow groomers when kids need to race? Those D1 scholarships are waiting. Priorities, after all.
NY has a ban on 48 others states as well. Probably way more people coming and going in NY then VT. Vermont regulations are ridiculous and I TRULY believe that if people followed those regulations 100% VT would be in such financial trouble they would be forced to lift them.

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drjeff

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It’s nice to know that people from much worse off areas than Vermont are happy to “bless” someone in a high risk profession break the rules and put people in a far away place at risk.

What’s a couple more dead Mt. Snow groomers when kids need to race? Those D1 scholarships are waiting. Priorities, after all.

Are you sure that you're COVID-19 Negative VTKilarney? As of this past Monday, when I took my latest test I am, and I'll be taking my next test tomorrow afternoon, after my work week is done, but before I go home. The Abbott labs 15 minute rapid tests, which are over 97% accurate, is what is part of my office protocol these days for all staff members. And yes, that doesn't mean that I couldn't be positive and not yet detectable. Short of everyone us living inside a bubble or NEVER coming in contact with anyone, nobody can be 100% certain they're negative 100% of the time. That's just real life, and there is always some risk in life no matter what we're doing.

And you can drop the racing narrative as well, since there is no way either of my kids is going D1, heck, right now 1 definitely isn't going to race in anything more than highschool racing this year, and the other is far more focused on academics than racing, and as of now, there really aren't any formal racing plans in VT until at minimum after January 1st, unless you're an athlete at a full time ski academy. Heck, Mount Snow hasn't even announced any formal plans on if they will be having a racing program this season as of yet, but then again, you're just making assumptions without having the full story before formulating your opinion.

If you are so concerned about things, feel free to do what you feel is safe, which may very well be to not leave your residence, that is your choice, since as of now, we still are a free country, and as adults, we are able to make decisions on our own.

Additionally, if you want to bring up interstate travel, as someone who lives not too far from the casinos in CT, and travels every day on my way to/from work up and down interstate 395 which essentially connects from the Mass Pike in the Worcester area to the casinos, I can certainly tell you that more days than not, I do see the green license plates that VT is known for traveling my roads in CT, but then again, I am guessing that you may not have an issue with your fellow Vermonters and how they choose to live their lives, verses others, who may not be full time VT residents, but choose to live their lives, and likely in a responsible way as well. Again, that's your own choice, and thankfully we still can make our own choices in this country.
 
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VTKilarney

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NY has a ban on 48 others states as well. Probably way more people coming and going in NY then VT. Vermont regulations are ridiculous and I TRULY believe that if people followed those regulations 100% VT would be in such financial trouble they would be forced to lift them.
The VAST majority of people that I speak with here are in support of the travel restrictions. A big reason why is likely because we are doing so well. Covid is creeping up here, but whatever Vermont has done has worked compared to any of the surrounding states. And it's not just a rural thing. Look at rural states out west and you will see that they are now doing very poorly.

I may come across as harsh, and I am not naive enough to think that everyone will follow the rules. What bothers me are the mental gymnastics to justify why the rules don't apply to oneself. People need to be honest and just admit that they value their own recreation more than the safety of others. It isn't theory at Mt. Snow. Two beloved employees are dead because of that attitude.

There are ski race programs in states that allow travel from Connecticut. So the sacrifice would have been minimal. And perhaps the best lesson to teach a child is not how to shave off 0.5 seconds from their slalom time - it's to teach compassion for others even when it means that you can't have everything you want.
 

ALLSKIING

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The VAST majority of people that I speak with here are in support of the travel restrictions. A big reason why is likely because we are doing so well. Covid is creeping up here, but whatever Vermont has done has worked compared to any of the surrounding states. And it's not just a rural thing. Look at rural states out west and you will see that they are now doing very poorly.

I may come across as harsh, and I am not naive enough to think that everyone will follow the rules. What bothers me are the mental gymnastics to justify why the rules don't apply to oneself. People need to be honest and just admit that they value their own recreation more than the safety of others. It isn't theory at Mt. Snow. Two beloved employees are dead because of that attitude.

There are ski race programs in states that allow travel from Connecticut. So the sacrifice would have been minimal. And perhaps the best lesson to teach a child is not how to shave off 0.5 seconds from their slalom time - it's to teach compassion for others even when it means that you can't have everything you want.
All that still doesn't change the fact that VT can't financially survive shut down to 98% of the population.

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VTKilarney

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Are you sure that you're COVID-19 Negative VTKilarney?
Nice attempt at deflection. I am sure that when I had to travel to Saratoga for one night a few weeks ago I quarantined upon my return. So, yeah. I follow the rules. Even though my entire time in the "yellow" county was spent outdoors when I was not in the hotel room.

As of this past Monday, when I took my latest test I am, and I'll be taking my next test tomorrow afternoon, after my work week is done, but before I go home. The Abbott labs 15 minute rapid tests, which are over 97% accurate, is what is part of my office protocol these days for all staff members.
And you know full well that you can test negative on a Friday and be contagious on a Sunday.

And you can drop the racing narrative as well, since there is no way either of my kids is going D1
That was EXACTLY my point.

If you are so concerned about things, feel free to do what you feel is safe, which may very well be to not leave your residence, that is your choice, since as of now, we still are a free country, and as adults, we are able to make decisions on our own.
I think you may have failed civics class. We are a country that has laws in place to protect the well being of others. You aren't "free" to violate the Vermont rules. Sure, enforcement is lax, but the rules exist and are on the books for a reason. Just be honest that you don't care if other people get sick. As long as you get to strap on a pair of skis.

I do see the green license plates that VT is known for traveling my roads in CT, but then again, I am guessing that you may not have an issue with your fellow Vermonters
Ahh... other people are bad so I should be too. Interesting moral compass you have there. What you can't dance around is that Vermonters have been much more successful at stemming Covid than people from Connecticut. One reason is that decent people are willing to respect the rules that have literally kept people in Vermont from dying.
 

VTKilarney

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All that still doesn't change the fact that VT can't financially survive shut down to 98% of the population.
Vermont has the third lowest unemployment rates in the country. So you might be overreacting just a wee bit.

Also, we aren't shut down to 98% of the population. We just ask that, if people come to Vermont, they quarantine before their kids go down a slalom course.
 

Slidebrook87

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I think you’re missing a main point here that the state he comes from is much less significant than how safe he is in Vermont. Assuming that he practices all the safety measures there is little to zero risk for transmission, even if he had the virus. Is he in close contact with people without masks for 15+ minutes? Probably not. Is he wearing a mask when in public and distancing? Probably yes.


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djd66

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It’s nice to know that people from much worse off areas than Vermont are happy to “bless” someone in a high risk profession break the rules and put people in a far away place at risk.

What’s a couple more dead Mt. Snow groomers when kids need to race? Those D1 scholarships are waiting. Priorities, after all.

Enough with the personal attacks.

The only way VT will be able to stop non-VT residents from coming to VT this winter is to shut down all ski areas. I can’t imagine what that would do to the economy. What I can imagine is VT requesting lots of my federal taxes to bail them out of an unnecessary situation.
 

VTKilarney

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I think you’re missing a main point here that the state he comes from is much less significant than how safe he is in Vermont. Assuming that he practices all the safety measures there is little to zero risk for transmission, even if he had the virus. Is he in close contact with people without masks for 15+ minutes? Probably not. Is he wearing a mask when in public and distancing? Probably yes.
I understand what you are saying, and it's one of the frustrations when rules have to be broad.

But that's the hand we have been dealt. And this person has self-professed that they spend the work week in a high risk environment. We also know that two Mt. Snow groomers are now dead.

But more importantly it's a real teaching moment for the children. They could be taught that sometimes we have to make sacrifices, even when we don't agree with the logic behind the rules, because we are asked to protect the welfare of others. Kids who are taught that lesson will become much better adults than kids who are taught to break the rules so they can work on their slalom form.
 

ALLSKIING

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Vermont has the third lowest unemployment rates in the country. So you might be overreacting just a wee bit.

Also, we aren't shut down to 98% of the population. We just ask that, if people come to Vermont, they quarantine before their kids go down a slalom course.
Over reacting? Let VT close for the winter and it back to me. Your tune will change pretty quickly.

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VTKilarney

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The only way VT will be able to stop non-VT residents from coming to VT this winter is to shut down all ski areas.
If people break the rules and there is an outbreak at a ski area - that is a very likely possibility.

A subset of skiers will have ruined things for everyone else.
 

VTKilarney

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Over reacting? Let VT close for the winter and it back to me. Your tune will change pretty quickly.
Our rooms and meals taxes plummeted the past few months and yet we have the third lowest unemployment in the country.

Perhaps you should be less paternalistic and let Vermonters make their own decisions.
 
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