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Ski Resort Response to COVID-19

Newpylong

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Dec 20, 2005
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Upper Valley, NH
This for certainty is a serious public health issue, that has grave consequences for some, no doubt about it. It is also a public health crisis that is blatantly exposing the ineptness of various governmental and regulatory officials as well as the influence that the media has over those who choose not to take the time to objectively look at the data that's out there about both how this virus can spread, as well as the relatively basic steps that we all can take to both reduce it's spread as well a continue to function in a fairly normal societal fashion.

I agree with this 100%. When you see people driving with masks on, people who put them on hiking, walking down a deserted street etc. It is very apparent that some folks do not look at what is known of this virus and go overboard on the hype.

THAT said, the whole idea that this thing only effects a certain demographic more severely than oneself is what I take issue with. Is it going to kill me, being a ~40 year old? Likely not. I could land in the hospital if my asthma is effected. Butt, it's the higher age bracket, and those with more severe underlying conditions that we need to be aware of. The teachers in my children's school who bravely go to school every day to teach my kids, their grand parents, that old lady in food service still serving people because she can't afford to sit home, etc and so on.

The videos of 20 year old packed in the bars in Florida... make me want to punch the screen.

People need to start realizing it isn't just about them.
 

deadheadskier

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Vermont's suicide rate has not risen.
https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com...d-mental-health-services-increase/3236486001/

That could be because we have low infection rates and low unemployment.
Once Biden is the prez and the dems control both the house and senate there will be nation wide rules.


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Let's keep the politics out of this

Thanks

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skiur

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Jan 27, 2012
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785
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18
Most locals from Vermont I talk to are not fans of Vermont's rules as it's hurting them financially. That may be because they live in resort areas but most of Vermont is resort areas. Maybe VTKilarney should just hide under his bed until the vaccine comes out.
 

JimG.

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Additionally, if you want to bring up interstate travel, as someone who lives not too far from the casinos in CT, and travels every day on my way to/from work up and down interstate 395 which essentially connects from the Mass Pike in the Worcester area to the casinos, I can certainly tell you that more days than not, I do see the green license plates that VT is known for traveling my roads in CT, but then again, I am guessing that you may not have an issue with your fellow Vermonters and how they choose to live their lives, verses others, who may not be full time VT residents, but choose to live their lives, and likely in a responsible way as well. Again, that's your own choice, and thankfully we still can make our own choices in this country.

I was going to stay out of the discussion until I read this. I see green VT plates every day in Dutchess county NY. But I'm sure those VTers quarantine for 14 days after returning to VT or get tested.

Ya!
 
Last edited:

mister moose

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Oct 11, 2007
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Those of you saying Vermont will crumble without tourism need to get over yourselves. Tourism accounts for 6-8% of the Vermont economy. What will be devastated is tourism dependent businesses and their employees.

The town I live in has had essentially no new cases in months. A few towns on the 91 corridor have very high case rates, but zero information is being made available on any demographics. Are these cases in nursing homes, prisons, schools, certain companies or neighborhoods? Armed with usable information we could alter our behavior more intelligently if WE HAD MORE USABLE DATA.

Here's the Vermont travel map from last week:

Vt map 1.jpg

Addison county had 902/M active cases according to the algorithm. It's perfectly ok for all these folks to take their kids someplace, freely travel in VT to go shopping, hit a restaurant.

Same map and date:

Vt map 2.jpg

Here's Rensellaer county, 646/M cases, 2/3 the rate of Addison county, yet Vermont thinks it's NOT OK for these folks to cross the border and do their business or have a sandwich.

When you have rules that make no sense, it fosters disrespect for the rules. People just go on with their lives.

Same for Vermonters shopping in West Leb NH, another yellow county. But that's OK, I'm shopping and that's essential. As if there isn't a grocery store in Woodstock, White River, Rutland, etc.

Vermont is fortunate because it 1) has a small population, 2) is fairly rural, 3) has no significant transportation hubs, 4) has no travel intensive large industry base, and 4) has adopted a more stringent policy with regard to bars, restaurants and travel.

I get VK's desire to keep the State's COVID rate down. It's hard to disagree with that in theory. At today's rates in many nearby areas though the infection rates are low and adoption of the common sense well known procedures (hand washing, mask use, etc) are good enough to operate with some degree of normalcy.

Killington had a small outbreak at a private party where there was a lot of no mask wearing, hugging, all in an indoor room. Early on back in January Boston's first outbreak was traced to a convention hall, again indoors with a lot of close contact. Colorado, organized ski trip and parties with close contact among the large group.

Perhaps we should do both: Open up slowly and progressively, but keep a loud and constant reminder of what behavior spreads this virus. In other words, adopt healthy behavior over address.
 

VTKilarney

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I was going to stay of the discussion until I read this. I see green VT plates every day in Dutchess county NY. But I'm sure those VTers quarantine for 14 days after returning to VT or get tested.

Ya!

This Vermonter traveled for one night to Saratoga County and quarantined.
 

oompaloompa

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anyone would be a foole to receive a vaccine that hasn't gone through rigorous and typical clinical trials. there haven't been any vaccines that have even made it out of phase 1 that i'm aware of. all we have to control this outbreak is wearing facial coverings, physical distancing, and frequent handwashing. the outbreaks that have happened regardless of these and other efforts have been effectively boxed in so far.

add up the time periods for phase 1, 2 and 3 testing below. we're not even close to a safe vaccine. you may agree to receiving one, no farking way for my child at this time. there's been way too much political pressure for a vaccine prior to election day, and way too much money is at stake. i just don't trust the bastards.

https://www.antidote.me/blog/how-long-do-clinical-trial-phases-take
 

Hawk

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I will say this. I think Dr Jeff's plan is solid regardless of the rules. I think what VTKilarney isn't realizing is Dr. Jeff is not the real enemy. You VT'ers have no idea of the amount of very conservative people down here that listen to the President and think that the virus is no big deal. They don't wear masks, they don't like the rules and they are certainly heading your way this winter. Those are the people that are going to shut down the state of Vermont not people like Dr Jeff. You guys just live in a very liberal state and don't see these people as much so you don't know. You'll see.
 

VTKilarney

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I will say this. I think Dr Jeff's plan is solid regardless of the rules.
I just wish Dr. Jeff was more honest about it. I don't understand how someone who works in a high risk job thinks that they are on a moral high ground, but he could have just said, "Look. Skiing is more important to me than the rules that Vermont has asked me to follow to protect their own citizens. I don't give a crap what you people in Vermont think. If I want to ski I'm skiing, dammit."

Have the backbone to call a spade a spade.
 

JimG.

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This Vermonter traveled for one night to Saratoga County and quarantined.

Ah! And you represent all those green plates I see here in NY?

VTK I have no doubt you follow the rules as do I. But I am not foolish enough to assume my behavior is widespread. And you don't believe that either.
 

Hawk

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Is it technically against the rules? Yes. Does his gamble have a high percentage of causing infection? I would say no. For some it's a hard decision because you have spent so much time, so much money and it is part of your soul. I do understand your concern. I really do. But you have to understand that Dr Jeff is the least of your worries. There are people coming your way that really truly don't give a F---. and will put no effort into protecting anyone. That is who I really would worry about.
 

VTKilarney

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Ah! And you represent all those green plates I see here in NY?

VTK I have no doubt you follow the rules as do I. But I am not foolish enough to assume my behavior is widespread. And you don't believe that either.

No, but your argument is one of false equivalency.
 

VTKilarney

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Is it technically against the rules? Yes. Does his gamble have a high percentage of causing infection? I would say no. For some it's a hard decision because you have spent so much time, so much money and it is part of your soul. I do understand your concern. I really do. But you have to understand that Dr Jeff is the least of your worries. There are people coming your way that really truly don't give a F---. and will put no effort into protecting anyone. That is who I really would worry about.

I also completely understand your point.

I guess it boils down to the fact that the people willing to break the rules about coming to Vermont are also, on average, the type of people who are willing to break other rules and are more likely to get infected. I've said in the past that one irony of the travel restrictions is that the careful people will stay home while the reckless people will still come.
 

deadheadskier

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I just wish Dr. Jeff was more honest about it. I don't understand how someone who works in a high risk job thinks that they are on a moral high ground, but he could have just said, "Look. Skiing is more important to me than the rules that Vermont has asked me to follow to protect their own citizens. I don't give a crap what you people in Vermont think. If I want to ski I'm skiing, dammit."

Have the backbone to call a spade a spade.
You've made your point VTK. About twenty times now. I know your legal profession has you predisposed to pound confessions of guilt out of people, but it really is okay to make a point and walk away in a normal social setting.

We got it. Dr Jeff is a selfish, snow groomer killing, flatlander. Damn him!!!!

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machski

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It's interesting that the people trying to self-rationalize rule breaking are from other states that are faring MUCH worse with the pandemic.

It's like taking cooking advice from Jeffrey Dahmer.

One thing to keep in mind is that, while tourism is down, numerous people from out of state have chosen to settle for a longer term in Vermont in order to ride out the pandemic. They have injected quite a bit of money into the economy. Many of them will return to their original homes when the pandemic has abated and when tourism will pick up again.
Yeah, ironic isn't it that the state with the second lowest population total in the country is fairling so well with Covid. Wyoming is the least populous state and they have quite a bit more cases than VT but only 3 more deaths. So circumstances have nothing to do with how well Vermont has fared, it's all because of great leadership and ridiculous travel restrictions on non state citizens. Come on.....

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ss20

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Can't we all just agree that Vermont's travel restrictions suck and move on?
 

mikec142

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I just wish Dr. Jeff was more honest about it. I don't understand how someone who works in a high risk job thinks that they are on a moral high ground, but he could have just said, "Look. Skiing is more important to me than the rules that Vermont has asked me to follow to protect their own citizens. I don't give a crap what you people in Vermont think. If I want to ski I'm skiing, dammit."

Have the backbone to call a spade a spade.


He was brutally honest. More honest than most. Said, in writing, exactly what his plans are for this ski season. What you're looking for is for him to explain his plans in a way that would allow you to shame him more.

I might turn this around and ask you to be more honest. You've gone back and forth about a dozen times already and haven't said what it's clear you want to say. Be honest. Call him a selfish jerk or whatever you want and move on.
 
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