Skiing/Snowboarding Trends

[Jully]

Agreed. I would say that anyone in high school isn't likely to start skiing. Anyone 14 and under or 18-30ish is the perfect target. Though if you're in the 18-30 age group, I would think you need a close friend, spouse, or significant other to introduce you. I doubt there are very many 23 year olds who say "I know no one who skis, but I want to learn how!"

 

[cdskier]

Unfortunately, ski areas are wanting us to get people into the sport but their approach of giving us a free lift ticket to charge a beginner full cost is not the right approach IMO. They would be better off with a limited terrain ticket and clinics at low dollars with a half off deal for the person that brings them to the mountain for a better experience. That is just my perspective. Entry to this great sport we love needs to feel easy, once they are hooked then put the screws to them.

Sugarbush has a great "First timer to life timer" program for people over the age of 13 that have never skied before. $280 for 3 days of lessons, rentals, and lift tickets. And then when you complete the 3rd lesson successfully you get a season pass for the rest of the year.

http://www.sugarbush.com/ski-ride-school/first-timer-lesson-program-for-skiers-and-snowboarders/

 

[dlague]

Sugarbush has a great "First timer to life timer" program for people over the age of 13 that have never skied before. $280 for 3 days of lessons, rentals, and lift tickets. And then when you complete the 3rd lesson successfully you get a season pass for the rest of the year.

http://www.sugarbush.com/ski-ride-school/first-timer-lesson-program-for-skiers-and-snowboarders/

Heck sign me up and I will act like I do not know how to ski!

 

[jimk]

Good for Sugarbush!

When I was a youngster it seemed like kids were sports generalists. Everyone would try a lot of different things including skiing. You could be pretty lousy and still, in a whole host of sports, make your HS junior varsity team if not varsity. Over the last 25 years a strange thing seems to be happening to kids . They either become sports specialists and join very competitive traveling teams from age 7 (the minority) or they become indoor couch potatoes and play with electronics all the time (the vast majority). I am exaggerating a little, but the implications for skiing are not good.

Also, when I was young skiing had a strong "cool" factor. Hard to believe, but Frenchmen Jean Claude Killy was almost as big a household name as Tiger Woods became. Now maybe skiing is not so cool, just expensive. The great thing about the snowboarding boom was that it brought back the cool factor for the younger generation. But that seems to have slipped. In the end, I guess I'm not too worried. The bottom line is that skiing/boarding is dang fun and takes place in a gorgeous, inspiring environment. Those are eternally strong qualities that should be enough to outdo any distractions or counter trends. Meanwhile, we the faithful keep spreading the love as best we can.

 

[dlague]

Good for Sugarbush!

When I was a youngster it seemed like kids were sports generalists. Everyone would try a lot of different things including skiing. You could be pretty lousy and still, in a whole host of sports, make your HS junior varsity team if not varsity. Over the last 25 years a strange thing seems to be happening to kids . They either become sports specialists and join very competitive traveling teams from age 7 (the minority) or they become indoor couch potatoes and play with electronics all the time (the vast majority). I am exaggerating a little, but the implications for skiing are not good.

Also, when I was young skiing had a strong "cool" factor. Hard to believe, but Frenchmen Jean Claude Killy was almost as big a household name as Tiger Woods became. Now maybe skiing is not so cool, just expensive. The great thing about the snowboarding boom was that it brought back the cool factor for the younger generation. But that seems to have slipped. In the end, I guess I'm not too worried. The bottom line is that skiing/boarding is dang fun and takes place in a gorgeous, inspiring environment. Those are eternally strong qualities that should be enough to outdo any distractions or counter trends. Meanwhile, we the faithful keep spreading the love as best we can.

You have a good point regarding sports. Our youngest, was interested in soccer and still is but before being in High School, the leagues he was in encouraged the kids to play year round (spring and fall seasons with winter clinics and school vacation week camp). The coaches talked to the parents stating that playing once per year is no longer good enough and were trying to sell us on an annual fee of something like $1300. We never bought it! However, many did. I have a nephew that plays baseball year round and the family is so focused on that that they quit skiing for the most part. Lacrosse back east is the same.

 

[benski]

Good for Sugarbush!

When I was a youngster it seemed like kids were sports generalists. Everyone would try a lot of different things including skiing. You could be pretty lousy and still, in a whole host of sports, make your HS junior varsity team if not varsity. Over the last 25 years a strange thing seems to be happening to kids . They either become sports specialists and join very competitive traveling teams from age 7 (the minority) or they become indoor couch potatoes and play with electronics all the time (the vast majority). I am exaggerating a little, but the implications for skiing are not good.

Being young I am not sure what exactly changed but many schools don't allow a significant amount of kids on sports teams. I have heard of the majority of people trying out being cut which provides a motivation to focus on becoming really good at one sport. Also most varsity teams practice on weekends which makes taking a weekend off difficult.

 

[Jully]

Being young I am not sure what exactly changed but many schools don't allow a significant amount of kids on sports teams. I have heard of the majority of people trying out being cut which provides a motivation to focus on becoming really good at one sport. Also most varsity teams practice on weekends which makes taking a weekend off difficult.

Funding. My old high school, while a great very well funded school generally speaking, had to cut back drastically according to friends who are still living in the town and connected to the school! We used to have freshmen teams in almost every sport now they've all been cut except baseball. People understandably don't want to pay taxes for sports teams but it hurts all sports overall in the long term. Same thing with team sizes. Heck even the track team at my school has cuts. We also have a $200+ dollar athletic fee now for a kid to participate in a sport each season!

 

[Jully]

Good for Sugarbush!

When I was a youngster it seemed like kids were sports generalists. Everyone would try a lot of different things including skiing. You could be pretty lousy and still, in a whole host of sports, make your HS junior varsity team if not varsity. Over the last 25 years a strange thing seems to be happening to kids . They either become sports specialists and join very competitive traveling teams from age 7 (the minority) or they become indoor couch potatoes and play with electronics all the time (the vast majority). I am exaggerating a little, but the implications for skiing are not good.

Also, when I was young skiing had a strong "cool" factor. Hard to believe, but Frenchmen Jean Claude Killy was almost as big a household name as Tiger Woods became. Now maybe skiing is not so cool, just expensive. The great thing about the snowboarding boom was that it brought back the cool factor for the younger generation. But that seems to have slipped. In the end, I guess I'm not too worried. The bottom line is that skiing/boarding is dang fun and takes place in a gorgeous, inspiring environment. Those are eternally strong qualities that should be enough to outdo any distractions or counter trends. Meanwhile, we the faithful keep spreading the love as best we can.

While I agree with most of this. I would say it varies by town and family a great deal. All my friends and family with young kids, even if the parents themselves are not active, actually encouraged the kid to swim, play soccer, basketball, and at least 4 other sports. They kept it up for a year or two and then let the kid decide what sports to continue with. After that one family did hyper specialization with hockey and the kid now plays that year round while another family kept their kid in just casual town sports!

The issue is more after kids are 5-9 years old and those that quit sports.

 

[benski]

Funding. My old high school, while a great very well funded school generally speaking, had to cut back drastically according to friends who are still living in the town and connected to the school! We used to have freshmen teams in almost every sport now they've all been cut except baseball. People understandably don't want to pay taxes for sports teams but it hurts all sports overall in the long term. Same thing with team sizes. Heck even the track team at my school has cuts. We also have a $200+ dollar athletic fee now for a kid to participate in a sport each season!

They should really cut the length of preseason stuff to save money. My high school only played and practiced 4 days a week and had 3-4 weeks of preseason. They were also the smallest school in there league and could still compete in many sports against much bigger high schools. Even made it to the New York state finals in soccer once.

My high school, in New York, does not let the sports seasons overlap so you can do a Fall, Winter and Spring sport, which many kids did. This seems like a reasonable way to cut back on coaching expenses since shorter seasons mean fewer coaching hours.

 

[mikec142]

The HS sports thing is an issue that many families face. My oldest is a freshman right now and she plays a fall sport (field hockey) and a spring sport (softball). Field hockey tryouts and practices started this year in the middle of August. This prevents us from taking any vacation at the end of August or around Labor Day weekend. In the spring, Softball will start the first week of March which will prevent us from going away during Spring Break. Assuming she sticks with these sports, this is the dynamic we will face for four years of HS and really it will be for six years as my youngest is in 7th grade and will eventually play HS sports. Many sports are more rigid that what I've described above.

As an aside, my kids aren't basketball players which helps, but I won't let them play an organized winter sport as it would prevent us from skiing. We are friendly with a local family that sold their condo at Sugarbush because they found that with three kids sports schedules they could never find time to use it.

 

[boston_e]

4. Other sports. Two winters ago, my daughter's travel soccer team scheduled "mandatory" winter training on Friday's from 4-7pm from early November thru March. Soccer games in my area go through the end of November and start up again the first or second weekend of March. That's just soccer (which isn't even a winter sport). Basketball is every winter weekend. Most non-winter sports have "off season" training during the ski season. My oldest plays field hockey for her high school. The season ends this week and then winter training begins a week later. Thankfully it's not on weekends this year.

I think this is a big one... These sports seem to be much more structured and intense now than they were when I was a kid. My kids (10 and 8 ) have friends they have wanted to bring skiing, but they could never go because of hockey. So you have otherwise athletic kids who never go because they are always doing another sport. These other sports also specifically draw families away who would be the profile who can actually afford skiing too (These other sports also often cost a lot of money).

In my hometown, there is a joke that there are two types of families: skiing families or hockey families. There is pretty much nobody who both skis and plays hockey.

 

[deadheadskier]

Question for those with kids going through the rigid sports scheduling dilemma. Is this an issue forced by the kids because it's what they want or is it an issue forced by the school districts because that's what the district wants? If it's the latter, would some push back from parents be appropriate? I think kids athletics is a wonderful thing, but when it starts to compromise family group time that I find troubling.

Our son is only 19 months so we have five years or so before crossing such bridges.

 

[Jully]

As an aside, my kids aren't basketball players which helps, but I won't let them play an organized winter sport as it would prevent us from skiing. We are friendly with a local family that sold their condo at Sugarbush because they found that with three kids sports schedules they could never find time to use it.

My hopeful plan is that skiing becomes my kids' winter sport. When they're young, enrolling them in some kind of winter program that eventually leads to racing if they want it, or just regular skiing with the family. No basketball and hockey!

 

[dlague]

My hopeful plan is that skiing becomes my kids' winter sport. When they're young, enrolling them in some kind of winter program that eventually leads to racing if they want it, or just regular skiing with the family. No basketball and hockey!

We also discouraged our kids from playing winter sports and used skiing as their winter activity. tail end of fall sports and beginning of Spring sports created some challenges and did limit our days so we often went for it between he book ends. Of our four boys, our youngest is still eager to get out there with us. Our son at Ft Carson gets out there with us too as well as with his friends. Our son in college got a Gunstock season pass and our oldest snowboards from time to time. So... we did our job!

 

[boston_e]

Question for those with kids going through the rigid sports scheduling dilemma. Is this an issue forced by the kids because it's what they want or is it an issue forced by the school districts because that's what the district wants? If it's the latter, would some push back from parents be appropriate? I think kids athletics is a wonderful thing, but when it starts to compromise family group time that I find troubling.

Our son is only 19 months so we have five years or so before crossing such bridges.

In my case I was not even talking about the school districts and high school sports etc. I'm talking about local youth leagues for 7, 10, 12 year olds etc etc.

In our town at least it is very common for any of the kids sports to have a practice or two through the week and then the games on Saturdays, so this is directly in conflict with skiing.

If you really want to make sure you are skiing, I would avoid the primary winter sports (Hockey and Basketball). Or if you do sign up for those sports, just stand firm and make sure the coach knows they will be missing some of the games for ski weekends.

Soccer in the fall is over before the ski season starts, and the spring sports generally don't start to conflict until sometime towards the 3rd week in March.

Our kids swim which starts up around Labor day and goes right through until April, but we generally stop signing up for meets once ski season starts. The nice thing about swimming is that while it is a team sport, it is more individual so missing meets does not affect the rest of the team as much as in a sport like basketball, where if they are down too many players they literally cannot play the game.

The other thing...and this is how it worked for us, is to hope they like skiing enough and sign them up for the ski team in the winter. That has you at the mountain anyway. I would say the experience our kids have had doing ski team has been outstanding.

 

[mikec142]

I haven't had time to get back to this until now...as I mentioned above, organized team sports most definitely have an affect on skiing/boarding.

A couple of points:

1. My kids (two daughters) don't play sports which have primary seasons in the winter (basketball, hockey). If they were dying to do it, I'd allow it, but I never encouraged it as I knew what affect it would have on skiing as a family. Additionally they were playing spring and fall sports and I wanted them to try other things as well and frankly to just have an opportunity to be kids.

2. While there are tremendous benefits to organized team sports (teaches teamwork, leadership, how to get along with others, discipline, keeps kids in good shape, etc., etc.), I've come to realize that there are serious drawbacks that have to be considered as well. The sheer amount of time required (each sport can be 4-5/days per week) is staggering. There is a lost opportunity cost to devoting so much time to one thing, especially when you're young. It crowds out things like art, dance, socializing, reading, family time, school work, religious obligations, vacations, skiing, etc. How are you going to learn if you like other things if you don't have the time to try them?

3. There are economic factors at play. There is pressure to sign up for off season training because the sports programs need to maintain employment for their professional trainers, otherwise those trainers would go elsewhere. There are dozens of tournaments each weekend that occur regardless of the weather. I can't tell you how many soccer tournaments I've watched in the snow or pouring rain because there was no way that the tournament organizers wanted to deal with giving teams their money back. Parents are so concerned about their kids failing behind that they are more than happy to pay professional trainers on the side so their kid can keep up with their peers.

4. Parents get caught up in the competition...ooh, my 7 year old could get a scholarship. So they push their kids to play (often without asking their kids if they actually enjoy the sport they are playing). This breeds two things...first is poor sideline behavior from the parents. I've witnessed some seriously bad parental behavior on the sidelines of elementary school level soccer games and middle school level football games. The second is burnout/resentment with the kids.

5. The local sports associations are competitive with each other. They tell kids they can't play both soccer and lacrosse or lacrosse and softball or swimming and basketball. Who is benefitting here? The associations or the kids when you force them to choose one sport over the other.


All of the above is just local sports before you get to high school.

6. Just wait til you get to high school...if your kid plays a fall sport, preseason will typically start 2-4 weeks before school starts which prevents you from taking a vacation in the month of August. If your kid plays a winter sport, you can forget going away for the holidays or any winter break. If your kid plays a spring sport, forget spring break.

7. Kids will practice or play games at the expense of academics. Try telling the football coach you have to leave practice early to study for a math test.

It's funny because it sounds like I'm against these sports and nothing could be further from the truth. I love watching my kids play. I love seeing that look on their face when they do well and it breaks my heart when I see them dejected after a loss. I love that I know that my freshman daughter will be at field hockey practice/game everyday in September and October from 3-6pm and thus not on her phone and nor sitting on the couch.

The thing is that there is balance to everything in life and my experience tells me that there can be an overemphasis placed on team sports that can have a negative affect. One clear example to me, my middle school daughter was a very good soccer player. She played 4-5x/wk on various travel teams for five years. She's also a pretty good artist, but she never had the time to take a class that would further her art abilities and further her love of art. One day, after the end of soccer season, she said to me, Dad, would you be mad if I didn't play soccer anymore? I was stunned...of course I wouldn't be mad, I just assumed that she liked it. She said, she really didn't love it, but she played because a lot of her friends played. Long story short, she didn't sign up for soccer for the next season and started taking art and photography classes. She's become an amazing artist and may even be developing career skills. Her soccer coaches kept asking her to rethink her decision because they were so shocked. I just remember beaming with pride when one of my close friends took my daughter aside and told her he was proud of her for making a hard decision that went against the grain in our town (soccer is a very dominant sport). Had she stayed with soccer, she may have never developed the art and photography skills she has today.

Bottom line, for any parent and kid...do things because you love them and do them on your terms (as best as possible).

 

[Big Game]

2. While there are tremendous benefits to organized team sports (teaches teamwork, leadership, how to get along with others, discipline, keeps kids in good shape, etc., etc.), I've come to realize that there are serious drawbacks that have to be considered as well. The sheer amount of time required (each sport can be 4-5/days per week) is staggering. There is a lost opportunity cost to devoting so much time to one thing, especially when you're young. It crowds out things like art, dance, socializing, reading, family time, school work, religious obligations, vacations, skiing, etc. How are you going to learn if you like other things if you don't have the time to try them?

When kids are put into organized play, they don't learn how to organize themselves. They become intellectually stifled and unable to move, afraid to move, always looking for an authority to tell them what to do.

Case in point: High school had band. Practice 2 hours during school and then from 6 pm - 8:30 pm every night. Then play at sports and then play at band competition. Kids practice a lot. Seems like its been this way for 20 years.

Well shoot with all the music kids are playing, our popular music should be awesome. The best ever. Yet, the reality is different. Pop music is kind of bland and shallow.

So many kids go to college, maybe play in band. But once they're out, they never touch an instrument again.

 

[ShadyGrove]

4. Other sports. Two winters ago, my daughter's travel soccer team scheduled "mandatory" winter training on Friday's from 4-7pm from early November thru March. Soccer games in my area go through the end of November and start up again the first or second weekend of March. That's just soccer (which isn't even a winter sport). Basketball is every winter weekend. Most non-winter sports have "off season" training during the ski season. My oldest plays field hockey for her high school. The season ends this week and then winter training begins a week later. Thankfully it's not on weekends this year.

THIS! Organized team sports have become a huge part of kids (and parents) lives. Too many sports are now year round even if the season is only a couple of months. I see kids that are required to show up at practices during holiday weeks. If they miss practice, then they are benched. One friend's son in the Boston area is giving up a trip to go to Europe with the rest of the family since he will not be allowed to play if he missed basketball practice. As a result it's impossible for these families to get away for a weekend to ski.

 

[Jully]

When kids are put into organized play, they don't learn how to organize themselves. They become intellectually stifled and unable to move, afraid to move, always looking for an authority to tell them what to do.

Case in point: High school had band. Practice 2 hours during school and then from 6 pm - 8:30 pm every night. Then play at sports and then play at band competition. Kids practice a lot. Seems like its been this way for 20 years.

Well shoot with all the music kids are playing, our popular music should be awesome. The best ever. Yet, the reality is different. Pop music is kind of bland and shallow.

So many kids go to college, maybe play in band. But once they're out, they never touch an instrument again.

Uhhh, I tend to disagree with that. While certainly some kids get 'stifled' by excessive organization, the vast majority I find can balance both worlds. Just because you are practicing one skill or existing in a structured organization doesn't mean that kids are not learning how to be creative. If you were to place blame for stifling creativity I would place it on video games, but even then its impossible to blame one thing. Kids are so ridiculously far from always looking for an authority to tell them what to do. That's the exact opposite of everyone's complaints with the current generation. Millenials are rejecting corporations and everything that is rigid and established.

As to music, pop music is crap and boring because that is what pop music is. If it isn't in 4/4 and follows a basic and catchy 4 chord progression then the masses won't listen to it. That is also not due to some underlying hatred of complex music because of a lack of exposure to individuality as a kid in high school band, its because most people don't listen to music that way. They want something to tap their foot to (or badly dance to while drunk...). There are only a certain number of chord progressions that fit this mass-appropriate bill and you can count them on your hands. So pop music always has been and always will be shallow and bland. Initial Beatles songs (pre Revolver) all followed the same formula that pop music today follows. You just like it better if you grew up with it.

There IS incredible music being produced these days. You just don't find it on the radio. It is every bit as creative as any music that has ever been produced to date, if not more so.

I do agree with your last point though. That's my biggest concern with sports organization and other extracurriculars like band. It seems to me that people get so caught up in the progression of their sport that they never stop to realize that they don't enjoy it anymore until that lack of enjoyment becomes loathing. The number of kids who played college baseball or basketball that said they couldn't wait for it to be over for good when they graduated astounded me when I was in college. When you spend so much time and have so much stress about something as mundane as a sport or band, you lose enjoyment of it and become miserable a lot of the time.

 

[Big Game]

Uhhh, I tend to disagree with that. While certainly some kids get 'stifled' by excessive organization, the vast majority I find can balance both worlds. Just because you are practicing one skill or existing in a structured organization doesn't mean that kids are not learning how to be creative. If you were to place blame for stifling creativity I would place it on video games, but even then its impossible to blame one thing. Kids are so ridiculously far from always looking for an authority to tell them what to do. That's the exact opposite of everyone's complaints with the current generation. Millenials are rejecting corporations and everything that is rigid and established.

As to music, pop music is crap and boring because that is what pop music is. If it isn't in 4/4 and follows a basic and catchy 4 chord progression then the masses won't listen to it. That is also not due to some underlying hatred of complex music because of a lack of exposure to individuality as a kid in high school band, its because most people don't listen to music that way. They want something to tap their foot to (or badly dance to while drunk...). There are only a certain number of chord progressions that fit this mass-appropriate bill and you can count them on your hands. So pop music always has been and always will be shallow and bland. Initial Beatles songs (pre Revolver) all followed the same formula that pop music today follows. You just like it better if you grew up with it.

There IS incredible music being produced these days. You just don't find it on the radio. It is every bit as creative as any music that has ever been produced to date, if not more so.

.

I was reluctant to use the pop music analogy, as you are right, there is great music being made today. You just have to know where to find it. But then I thought, well... If it is difficult to find, that means it is NOT popular, thus not pop.

I think it was Dee Snyder who commented on that comedians and musicians tended to do the best a Celebrity Apprentice as they were used to improvising and making do with what they had and taking initiative. And the sports stars are always looking around for a coach to tell them what to do.

Playing in a marching band is great experience, but is nothing like getting together with a few of your friends and creating something entirely new.

I've shared the stage with a lot of different guys. Never did I play with anyone who was in a high school band for 4 years. Probably a year at most, if at all. Now does this mean band will ruin your creativity and make you a follower? Probably a mixed bag of correlation. A mad man drummer will probably want to play more like John Bonham than John Souza.

I think though ultimately, that that time commitment with band must factor into why kids don't have the time for skiiing.

(BTW Also I have a strong anti-high school band bias as I am in earshot of my high school marching band practicing until 8:30 at night. All you can really hear is those stupid toms. Everything else is drowned out. I probably wouldn't hate it as much if it was balanced. General oafishness is what I have a problem with. My cousin who is a pro Opera singer says that the way even the classics are played and sung, for the modern listener, it is all about loudness. Power.)