Slate Article on the Duopoly of Skiing and Riding

[deadheadskier]

Paved and lined is all well and good in theory until it starts snowing and you can't see the lines. Sugarbush added a line last year marking the halfway point of one section so people could properly park without being too far forward or backwards in order to get 2 cars back to back in that section. I'd estimate that most of the winter you couldn't see said line. I thought it was a great idea when I first saw it (when the ground was bare), but it didn't work out as well as I thought it would in reality once you hit mid-winter with regular snowfall.

I still support paving and at least attempting lines though. I just wouldn't count on the line part helping as much as we'd hope it would unless someone does a superb job clearing snow in the lot all the time.

All fair points. Probably more an issue up in Northern VT than Central NH. We get enough warm weather that I expect this lot to be clear much of the time this winter. Probably also less of an issue out west too where snow in parking lots in the valleys tends to not stick around as much as in the North in Eastern NA.

It was just a surprising thing to experience. Where the prior two years they had to spend a bunch of time lining people up to park both the front of the cars and sides, now they just point where they want you to go and folks zip right into their spots.

I had only anticipated the benefit of a less muddy car. I hadn't even thought about the benefit of getting people parked faster until I experienced it on Saturday.

 

[jimk]

I think a bigger issue than multi-mountain passes is having ski areas be part of publicly traded companies. Such companies end up being more loyal to shareholders than customers in the form of operational cuts... With Vail / Epic in NH, the season length was cut by 3-4 weeks in the state and early season snowmaking efforts have been more conservative at all of their areas except perhaps Crotched.

Several of the six Vail owned mtns in southern PA went from being among the most aggressive in the region to blow snow and open early/late, to now they are the slowest snowmakers and the shortest seasons. Folks long for the old owners.

I have thought of this idea as well.

BTW the Town of Brighton is going to require paid reservations now to park on SR 190.

Can you still show up at 830am on quiet days and park for free and without reservations on 190 outside the Moonbeam lodge at Solitude? I did that several times a season the last few years and it worked well for me. If not, I'm either going to hop the bus or catch a ride with friends with season parking passes. Problem with bus is finding room on one for the ride down canyon at the end of busy days.

 

[heiusa]

One big observation is that by and far folks on the east coast are not having nearly the same level of crowding as we are in UT and CO. The notable exception is Stowe. As I've said (way too much), in a five-year span we went from traffic issues only on snow days and major holidays to now every weekend. Big Cottonwood was always a solid option after a storm with little or no traffic. Now everyone needs a parking reservation--and if you are on IKON only, that will cost you at least $25.00 per day.

So from my POV, it is easy to see why folks in NE are really excited about EPIC and IKON in particular. By and large you don't have the negative impacts that we have here.

I am not sure why you think we are not having crowding issues on the East Coast. Every epic mountain in Vermont is a shit show on a Saturday.

 

[thetrailboss]

Can you still show up at 830am on quiet days and park for free and without reservations on 190 outside the Moonbeam lodge at Solitude? I did that several times a season the last few years and it worked well for me. If not, I'm either going to hop the bus or catch a ride with friends with season parking passes. Problem with bus is finding room on one for the ride down canyon at the end of busy days.

Negative.

 

[deadheadskier]

Today I was thinking about this a little bit while skiing Gunstock with my kids. They blew every single drop of water they are capable of on their trails this week. They had a later start, yet they have almost as much terrain available as both Attitash and Wildcat combined available. Given summit lift delays, Attitash should at least have Bear 100% open and they've got like 20% of it. It's pathetic.

In our now third season, never once have I felt that Gunstock has been too conservative with their snowmaking. They get after it every chance they get. Where as with Vail running AttiCat, that gripe was constant for me.

County owned ski area vs wealthiest ski company on the planet.

That's the difference between independent places and corporate. The Indys simply care more about wowing their customers.

 

[Edd]

Today I was thinking about this a little bit while skiing Gunstock with my kids. They blew every single drop of water they are capable of on their trails this week. They had a later start, yet they have almost as much terrain available as both Attitash and Wildcat combined available. Given summit lift delays, Attitash should at least have Bear 100% open and they've got like 20% of it. It's pathetic.

In our now third season, never once have I felt that Gunstock has been too conservative with their snowmaking. They get after it every chance they get. Where as with Vail running AttiCat, that gripe was constant for me.

County owned ski area vs wealthiest ski company on the planet.

That's the difference between independent places and corporate. The Indys simply care more about wowing their customers.

Perfect time for one of dr Jeff’s “the reality is” posts. It’s a holiday favorite for me.

 

[snoseek]

Epic pass is ok when the snow comes but in nh it's crucial to have a second pass to somewhere where they give a fuck about early and late skiing.

 

[thebigo]

This is the point, none of the mega passes offers a premium experience for NH skiing familes. Living where we live, you need two passes. We includes snowseek, dhs and Edd. One pass to a local independent for mid season weekends/holidays, another to mix it up and hopefully early/late. Viable local independent accesible options include ragged, gunstock and cannon.

Would love if ikon had better options in NH or vail could be counted on for early and late but they cannot. I have solved this problem last few years with ragged and boyne bronze but honestly loon has not been great thus far this year and K season is 6+ weeks longer than SR. We ski too much for indy to be viable.

Not sure what we do next year? Skied gunatock 3X this week and ragged today. Gunstock groomers are more interesting but ragged surfaces are consistently better. Gunstock has night skiing and more training opportunities for the kids. I suspect ragged has far better trees but need to confirm. The parking lot and new barrel pub at gunny are nice.

Sitting here in late December it would probably be gunstock and killington for next year but got two more months to decide.

 

[deadheadskier]

I did Ragged my first two years living in NH. 2008-10. Its trees are far more vast and better than Gunstock. I do Gunstock now for the shorter commute, longer runs and I like having NASTAR available for me to practice for my Wednesday night league at Pat's. Also like their structure for kids seasonal programs. Our boat has also been at the marina at the bottom of the hill for four years. So, it just kinda feels like home. It's a low key and reliable Sunday hang for us.

If iKon picked up something else in NH, I'd consider it. But Indy, Gunstock, a few Epic Day Passes , ARL, and a couple early / late out of pocket and I get to my 40-45 days. I imagine I'll pick up a full Epic or Ikon one of these seasons for a Western trip. I could do an Indy western trip, but family trips I like to stay pretty much planted at one place for the week. Can't really do that with Indy.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

Very few Indy resorts that are worthy of standalone airplane trips in my opinion. Even if you patch a few together. Like I’m not flying to Utah for powmow and beaver. Maybe Boise for tamarack/brundage would be ok. Indy is more of a compliment to add in a day on a trip to a much better ikon destination. But really I get Indy for jay magic cannon bolton waterville and hopefully saddleback

 

[BodeMiller1]

Agree really trying to get to Saddleback in early spring. I hope to ski Stowe 10 or more times.Then back to the rotation: Killington, Cannon and Sunday River.

In decent shape, trying to be able to ski hard All Day. Lunch is for wimps...

 

[BenedictGomez]

I didn't realize New Hampshire was the red-headed stepchild of the North American skiing world.

 

[BodeMiller1]

I didn't realize New Hampshire was the red-headed stepchild of the North American skiing world.

We are to some, here's the thing we have ski areas no one knows about. If you don't leave live stock gates open - we pretty much follow common law. If you're not using your land. I can and will.

Cutting like lines to ski. If you don't overdo it. No one cares. Even if your statement is not true New Hampshire is in error to in the weed world. That we f+#&+Ed up world class level.

 

[thebigo]

I didn't realize New Hampshire was the red-headed stepchild of the North American skiing world.

Vail certainly thinks so.

 

[BodeMiller1]

There was a guy on K-Zone who would buy the ASC pass. Then he had it planned so he would pay with a credit card and he planned it so he didn't incur any fees. Here's my point, at some point you have to let the mountain make money.

It's like the chicks on TV who clip coupons and pay zero and fill the basement with food and attack with whatever. If everyone did it the system would collapse.
Its the same thing in the ski world. If you want safe efficient lifts and clean lodges. It costs money (or wompum)

If you want to play you have to pay.

Butt something needs to be done with the 2 elephants in the room. From reading most of this thread and talking to folks, the ski industry is broken.

File under Corporate Greed.Write your senators and governors.

 

[1dog]

There was a guy on K-Zone who would buy the ASC pass. Then he had it planned so he would pay with a credit card and he planned it so he didn't incur any fees. Here's my point, at some point you have to let the mountain make money.

It's like the chicks on TV who clip coupons and pay zero and fill the basement with food and attack with whatever. If everyone did it the system would collapse.
Its the same thing in the ski world. If you want safe efficient lifts and clean lodges. It costs money (or wompum)

If you want to play you have to pay.

Butt something needs to be done with the 2 elephants in the room. From reading most of this thread and talking to folks, the ski industry is broken.

File under Corporate Greed.Write your senators and governors.

Gee, anti-trust laws? It seems so inconsistent in industry in general, but I recall Staples not allowed to purchase Office Max 20 years or so ago.

Said something ( from memory so forgive me if I am off) they would control 30%-40% of the market. Therefore, monopoly.

Anyone know what % the two elephants control ( customer-wise or ski area-wise)?

 

[AdironRider]

The only people who hate Vail are salty old jaded ski fucks. 95 percent of the clientele think it’s great.

 

[Great Bear]

One big observation is that by and far folks on the east coast are not having nearly the same level of crowding as we are in UT and CO. The notable exception is Stowe. As I've said (way too much), in a five-year span we went from traffic issues only on snow days and major holidays to now every weekend. Big Cottonwood was always a solid option after a storm with little or no traffic. Now everyone needs a parking reservation--and if you are on IKON only, that will cost you at least $25.00 per day.

So from my POV, it is easy to see why folks in NE are really excited about EPIC and IKON in particular. By and large you don't have the negative impacts that we have here.

Stowe is the worst example but last year Killington had people having to park on the access road down by the Lookout (which if you are not familiar with the area is about a 3/4 of a mile uphill slog)... also cars trying to park in the breakdown lane on route 4 down at Skyship. I have not been, but I'm told Loon is a total shit show on weekends and friends from SR and Loaf tell me the crowds most weekends are untenable.

IMO, people who get the worst end of this deal are those whose "home" mountains are on IKON but not unlimited on IKON.... so we get the IKON crowds but not the benefit of getting to ski at other resorts on our pass.

 

[Harvey]

multi-mountain pass has made lift tickets more affordable

Fify.

The question is have they made skiing more enjoyable. For some probably.

It hasn't really affected my experience at all. But I only have two days at a megapass resort (Hunter) in the last five years. Does Killington count? I guess that is two.

 

[Harvey]

The Two Warring Companies That Ruined Skiing

The past two decades have seen mountains all over succumb.

slate.com

The article acts like there is no skiing outside of Epic and Ikon.