Slate Article on the Duopoly of Skiing and Riding

[Edd]

The only people who hate Vail are salty old jaded ski fucks. 95 percent of the clientele think it’s great.

Harsh assessment. If they buy your mountain and negatively alter the experience compared to previous owners then some complaining is warranted. A Mt Snow regular will have a very different opinion than a Wildcat or Stowe homer.

I do western trips so multi-mountain passes come in handy for me but some folks just like their home hill and don’t want it fucked with.

 

[thetrailboss]

Things I believe more than an article in Slate......

Ski Blades are the greatest advancement in snow sliding sports of all time.....

And FWIW this piece appeared this morning in the Salt Lake Trib. That derails your argument.

 

[cdskier]

Gee, anti-trust laws? It seems so inconsistent in industry in general, but I recall Staples not allowed to purchase Office Max 20 years or so ago.

Said something ( from memory so forgive me if I am off) they would control 30%-40% of the market. Therefore, monopoly.

Anyone know what % the two elephants control ( customer-wise or ski area-wise)?

Ski area-wise? Only about 10-11% (they together own about 50 resorts in the US meanwhile there are 480 resorts in the US according to NSAA).

Now customer-wise and even acreage wise I'd bet the percentage is higher...

 

[BodeMiller1]

One of the problems is the "get back to nature movement" from the plague thing

In Vermont some trails saw hiker visits triple
Not good. People should not be allowed to change personal habits because of "natural" disasters.

One problem in correcting large corporations in error is people are making money off controlling the lyons share of the market. This is a tangled web. This sould be brought to the attention of the head of our federal government. He would most likely want to correct our trade with a third world country that has nothing to do with ski areas. Butt you have to start somewhere.

 

[BodeMiller1]

Harsh assessment. If they buy your mountain and negatively alter the experience compared to previous owners then some complaining is warranted. A Mt Snow regular will have a very different opinion than a Wildcat or Stowe homer.

I do western trips so multi-mountain passes come in handy for me but some folks just like their home hill and don’t want it fucked with.

Arronrider,
Instead of waking up and thinking "today I want to be wrong about everything", maybe every other thing.
Good luck, if you decide to stay the course, you've got numbers.

 

[drjeff]

And FWIW this piece appeared this morning in the Salt Lake Trib. That derails your argument.

The SL Tribune wrote an article about ski blades?

 

[BodeMiller1]

The SL Tribune wrote an article about ski blades?

Weren't snowboards enough? Now ski blades, when will it end.
Let me guess ski blades are fun. I don't know anything about these, butt firmly believe they should be banned.

 

[4aprice]

Harsh assessment. If they buy your mountain and negatively alter the experience compared to previous owners then some complaining is warranted. A Mt Snow regular will have a very different opinion than a Wildcat or Stowe homer.

I do western trips so multi-mountain passes come in handy for me but some folks just like their home hill and don’t want it fucked with.

Seems to me Vail has been relatively busy with improvements. Everything can't be completed immediately and I don't know what plans are in the pipeline but at least they have the ability to make them.

Improvements at Epic Properties in New England that I know of.

Mt Snow - New lift
Okemo
Stowe - New Lift
Mt Sunapee
Attitash - New Lift
Wildcat - Rebuilt snow making system

Just my observation.

 

[skimagic]

Seems to me Vail has been relatively busy with improvements. Everything can't be completed immediately and I don't know what plans are in the pipeline but at least they have the ability to make them.

Improvements at Epic Properties in New England that I know of.

Mt Snow - New lift
Okemo
Stowe - New Lift
Mt Sunapee
Attitash - New Lift
Wildcat - Rebuilt snow making system

Okemo- new six pack lift and replacement of triple with high speed quad

 

[drjeff]

Seems to me Vail has been relatively busy with improvements. Everything can't be completed immediately and I don't know what plans are in the pipeline but at least they have the ability to make them.

Improvements at Epic Properties in New England that I know of.

Mt Snow - New lift
Okemo
Stowe - New Lift
Mt Sunapee
Attitash - New Lift
Wildcat - Rebuilt snow making system

Just my observation.

For Mount Snow and Attitash, it would be new LIFTS, plural. They've probably spent somewhere around 50 million in new lifts in New England, the last 3 years or so.

Granted, to date of their NH properties, Attitash the last 2 seasons has gotten the bulk of their capital spending attention

 

[AdironRider]

Harsh assessment. If they buy your mountain and negatively alter the experience compared to previous owners then some complaining is warranted. A Mt Snow regular will have a very different opinion than a Wildcat or Stowe homer.

I do western trips so multi-mountain passes come in handy for me but some folks just like their home hill and don’t want it fucked with.

Proof is in the pudding. Last year Vail was up in almost every metric, from skier visits to pass revenue and so on.

If people felt the way you think they do, that wouldn’t be the case.

 

[Edd]

Proof is in the pudding. Last year Vail was up in almost every metric, from skier visits to pass revenue and so on.

If people felt the way you think they do, that wouldn’t be the case.

I wonder. We all eat shit on this and that. People can dislike what Vail does and still give them business because they own a condo at Attitash or whatever. The metrics you suggest assume customer satisfaction automatically jibes with stock price (or whatever)? Not sure that’s 100% true or Vail won’t pay for it down the line. But being successful often seems to be being two steps ahead of consequences these days.

 

[Former Sunday Rivah Rat]

Wildcat - Rebuilt snow making system

How's that Rebuilt snow making system at Wildcat working out for you Vail? One route down from the top on 12/24? WTF kind of shitshow performance is that?

 

[Smellytele]

Proof is in the pudding. Last year Vail was up in almost every metric, from skier visits to pass revenue and so on.

If people felt the way you think they do, that wouldn’t be the case.

When you buy more ski areas you end up with more skier visits and pass revenue…

 

[deadheadskier]

Seems to me Vail has been relatively busy with improvements. Everything can't be completed immediately and I don't know what plans are in the pipeline but at least they have the ability to make them.

Improvements at Epic Properties in New England that I know of.

Mt Snow - New lift
Okemo
Stowe - New Lift
Mt Sunapee
Attitash - New Lift
Wildcat - Rebuilt snow making system

Just my observation.

The complaints (at least in NH) aren't about capital improvements. They are about operational efforts such as: lackluster snowmaking, not running lifts, higher priced yet lesser quality concessions and shortened seasons.

Who cares if Attitash puts in a new lift when there's little to no snow being made on the trails? Save for Crotched (which only has maybe 100 acres to cover) Vails snowmaking efforts in NH are perhaps the worst in the state every year since they bought in.

Cannon
Bretton Woods
Cranmore
Loon
Waterville
Pat's
Ragged
Gunstock

Every single one of them makes a greater effort with snowmaking and running lifts than the wealthiest ski company on the planet.

Vail does not care. They know that as long as the pass product is super cheap, the masses will still buy them. They do the bare minimum and hope for the best from Mother Nature. If she doesn't come though, oh well.

 

[deadheadskier]

The only people who hate Vail are salty old jaded ski fucks. 95 percent of the clientele think it’s great.

Are you a salty, old jaded snowboarding fuck? Because you sure as hell bitched incessantly about what iKon did to Jackson Hole. How was that any different?

 

[BenedictGomez]

I recall Staples not allowed to purchase Office Max 20 years or so ago.

And look how idiotic that seems now. In general, the government has been a terrible arbitor of what should/shouldnt be deemed a monopoly.

In any event, clearly, neither Vail, nor Alterra are there yet. Now, if someone intelligent wants to put together a market collusion case, then I'm all ears.

 

[BenedictGomez]

The only people who hate Vail are salty old jaded ski fucks. 95 percent of the clientele think it’s great.

There's absolutely no way this is even remotely true.

Perhaps 95% of passholders enjoy their low price point, but I'd trade that tomorrow in a heartbeat to go back to the world of increased market competitors.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Vail does not care. They know that as long as the pass product is super cheap, the masses will still buy them. They do the bare minimum and hope for the best from Mother Nature. If she doesn't come though, oh well.

You think it's bad now?

This is like the top of the 5th inning (at most).

 

[BodeMiller1]

If you send a certified letter to a person or business by The U.S. Post Office and the receipt does not respond, in the eyes of the law what is said in the letter is true and admissable.
- It's extremely important EVERYTHING you say is fact. If not it's mail fraud or could be.
- A couple the of years ago The Supreme Court ruled that Federal Express, even with the same paperwork is NOT the same and doesn't carry the same weight.

So if you're been screwed out of money from someone breaking a contract (oral or written) certified mail is the best way to let the other party know you're serious.

Just don't over play your hand. Judges can spot a money grab a mile away.

Meow