So how did that Wildcat/Attitash calamity play out?

[AdironRider]

Wasn't that long ago the board was lighting up about how Wildcat got bought out.

From an outsiders perspective sounds like a whole lot of nothing changed.

So how did it really play out?

 

[EPB]

Wasn't that long ago the board was lighting up about how Wildcat got bought out.

From an outsiders perspective sounds like a whole lot of nothing changed.

So how did it really play out?

It played out reasonably well as far as I could tell. Peak was probably a bit quicker to pull the plug on Wildcat (edit: on windy days) when they could just send skiers down the street to Attitash, but that could be expected. Similarly, Attitash is set to close on Sunday, and I am fairly certain that they would have tried to open Attitash at least one more weekend if they didn't own Wildcat. Again, not much of a surprise to me.

My biggest complaint was the lack of sufficient snow-making at Attitash. Sure, Peak Resorts has substantially upped their operating costs in the Mount Washington Valley, but they re-made snow on at least four separate runs on Attitash that I saw. Peak has owned Attitash for too long to think that they can skimp on snow making as much as they did at Attitash this year. I blame that partially on their acquisition Wildcat because of the increased operating costs, however, they really should have known better and they ended up spending the cash to fix their chintz jobs anyway. I would say that I'm looking forward to skiing Wildcat on a more consistent basis early season than ever before (because they appeared to be looking into snow-making improvements), but with they way they made snow at Attitash, I'll believe it when I see it.

The most amusing part of the merger for me was a rumor I heard more than once that Peak purchased Wildcat so they could deconstruct Wildcat's Summit Express and move it to Attitash.

 

[deadheadskier]

couldn't tell ya

no cheap weekend deals to compare the Wildcat product from years past.

 

[Puck it]

I still can't believe Attitash is closing this weekend.

 

[Black Phantom]

couldn't tell ya

no cheap weekend deals to compare the Wildcat product from years past.

Maybe it's not that bad of a move if they were able to remove the bottom feeders and increase the bottom line.

 

[deadheadskier]

Maybe it's not that bad of a move if they were able to remove the bottom feeders and increase the bottom line.

I'm sure next season they will more than make up for the bottom feeders like me with the combo pass. It's a great deal that I'm sure will be quite popular.

 

[EPB]

I still can't believe Attitash is closing this weekend.

Neither can I. I just found out this morning that Wildcat is already scheduled to close on the 17th too. That makes little sense, especially given the fact that they're 100% open up at Wildcat and the temps have been so cold lately.

As a side note, I have not seen as much animosity toward a ski area management group (Peak) while listening to skiers Attitash/Wildcat. The negative feedback on Facebook is remarkable. Here's the recent posting about Attitash closing on the 3rd: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Attitash-Ski-Resort/11734549978?ref=ts

I understand that ski areas are susceptible to this type of negativity on Facebook, but as someone who follows numerous eastern ski areas' facebook pages, I have yet to encounter comments as consistently negative as those found on Attitash's page.

 

[thetrailboss]

Not good and too bad because Peak was really a big heart-throb after the failure of ASC. With what they did at Snow and Crotched, they had a lot of fans. I have heard very, very little about Attitash and now they seem to be going against what their clientele wanted. Maybe it is just a temporary thing?

FWIW heard Roger Hill say that the weather is going to be colder than normal for the next two weeks or so and snow is in the forecast this weekend...a Nor'Easter. Why talk about closing?

 

[tjf67]

Not good and too bad because Peak was really a big heart-throb after the failure of ASC. With what they did at Snow and Crotched, they had a lot of fans. I have heard very, very little about Attitash and now they seem to be going against what their clientele wanted. Maybe it is just a temporary thing?

FWIW heard Roger Hill say that the weather is going to be colder than normal for the next two weeks or so and snow is in the forecast this weekend...a Nor'Easter. Why talk about closing?

Dont all the hills post a closing date? Whiteface is scheduled to close on the 10th. That is a moving number, if there is snow they will stay open on the weekends after that, which they already communicated they intend to do.

Another idea would be to let the Attitash customers use there season pass the remander of the year over at Wildcat. That would save a decent amount of fixed costs. I dont think they know what they are going to do yet and are putting dates out there that are conservative. Sets the bar low to over perform.

 

[drjeff]

My hunch is that Peak will end up doing what they're now doing with Mount Snow. Which is set a tenative closing date, with the following caveat: "if there's still snow and the business levels support it, the option of staying open later"

Afterall, Peak is in the ski BUSINESS, and there comes a time when one has to take a look at what the books are saying verses how much snow may still be on the hill, if they want to stay in the ski BUSINESS. And operating is more than just flipping the switch to spin a lift.

 

[deadheadskier]

My hunch is that Peak will end up doing what they're now doing with Mount Snow. Which is set a tenative closing date, with the following caveat: "if there's still snow and the business levels support it, the option of staying open later"

Afterall, Peak is in the ski BUSINESS, and there comes a time when one has to take a look at what the books are saying verses how much snow may still be on the hill, if they want to stay in the ski BUSINESS. And operating is more than just flipping the switch to spin a lift.

What I don't understand is there is minimal if not zero money to be made in the ski BUSINESS midweek after March 1st. Wouldn't the wiser business decision for most any ski area in the east be to switch to a 4 day per week operating schedule starting mid-march and then extend the season a couple of weeks? It seems doing so would add days that make or lose little money and eliminate a lot of days where running in a deficit is a guarantee.

It just seems that the vast majority of ski areas in the east run their midweek operations too late in the season and cut weekend operations short.

 

[drjeff]

What I don't understand is there is minimal if not zero money to be made in the ski BUSINESS midweek after March 1st. Wouldn't the wiser business decision for most any ski area in the east be to switch to a 4 day per week operating schedule starting mid-march and then extend the season a couple of weeks? It seems doing so would add days that make or lose little money and eliminate a lot of days where running in a deficit is a guarantee.

It just seems that the vast majority of ski areas in the east run their midweek operations too late in the season and cut weekend operations short.

I think that in reality for many ski areas the descision is a combo of business and staffing. As many larger ski areas these days rely on foriegn workers on finite length Visa's for a significant portion of their staffing. And for many those 90 day Visa's run from mid-December to mid- March. Plus, as someone who regularly skis on Monday's in late March and later if available, you you think that the late season weekend staffing is minimal, you should see late season midweek staffing levels :lol:

Plus, as most GM's will tell you, with the wealth of non snow activities that exist today (in a sense far more than existed 10,15, 20+ years ago) the idea of getting another day or two in, while still on the list of many skiers/riders, has seemed to be pushed further down that last than it used to be. Lastly, there's also that psychological issue that when potential customers see that the mountain closes midweek, especially this time of year when in their backyards there hasn't been snow for a while, those potential customers have the though enter into their minds that the reason why they shut down midweek must have something to do with limited snow, and not just the truth which more often than not is limited business

 

[Cannonball]

Neither can I. I just found out this morning that Wildcat is already scheduled to close on the 17th too. That makes little sense, especially given the fact that they're 100% open up at Wildcat and the temps have been so cold lately.

As a side note, I have not seen as much animosity toward a ski area management group (Peak) while listening to skiers Attitash/Wildcat. The negative feedback on Facebook is remarkable. Here's the recent posting about Attitash closing on the 3rd: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Attitash-Ski-Resort/11734549978?ref=ts

I understand that ski areas are susceptible to this type of negativity on Facebook, but as someone who follows numerous eastern ski areas' facebook pages, I have yet to encounter comments as consistently negative as those found on Attitash's page.

Most people think that the closing are about snow coverage. But at least two people on Attitash's Facebook page know the real deal. Both Travis and Kyle realize that bears coming out of hibernation are what close a NH mountain. Since there are no bear spots yet they should remain open for a few more weeks.

"Travis Champ Rockett: cmon theres no bearspots and still plenty of snow. the used to always close on the 10th"

"Kyle Kliss i havent seen a bear spot yet and more snow saturday bad day to close attitash"

 

[john1200c]

It just seems that the vast majority of ski areas in the east run their midweek operations too late in the season and cut weekend operations short.

Makes sense. I know someone who was at Attitash yesterday and said the place was empty yet conditions were superb....

 

[john1200c]

But at least two people on Attitash's Facebook page know the real deal. Both Travis and Kyle realize that bears coming out of hibernation are what close a NH mountain. Since there are no bear spots yet they should remain open for a few more weeks.

Its all good and well until someone gets eaten by hungry bears....:blink:

 

[deadheadskier]

I think that in reality for many ski areas the descision is a combo of business and staffing. As many larger ski areas these days rely on foriegn workers on finite length Visa's for a significant portion of their staffing. And for many those 90 day Visa's run from mid-December to mid- March. Plus, as someone who regularly skis on Monday's in late March and later if available, you you think that the late season weekend staffing is minimal, you should see late season midweek staffing levels :lol:

I don't buy the staffing argument.

I used to work with the former F&B director at Sugarbush. They used to run the mountain weekends only with salaried management for the final two weekends of the season during the early 2000s. He said they broke even doing this or turned a modest profit depending on the weekend. When the ski area is closed, you run at a loss no matter what.

 

[EPB]

When the ski area is closed, you run at a loss no matter what.

People don't bring this up very often.

 

[2knees]

Most people think that the closing are about snow coverage. But at least two people on Attitash's Facebook page know the real deal. Both Travis and Kyle realize that bears coming out of hibernation are what close a NH mountain. Since there are no bear spots yet they should remain open for a few more weeks.

"Travis Champ Rockett: cmon theres no bearspots and still plenty of snow. the used to always close on the 10th"

"Kyle Kliss i havent seen a bear spot yet and more snow saturday bad day to close attitash"

bear spots or bare spots :lol:

 

[drjeff]

I don't buy the staffing argument.

I used to work with the former F&B director at Sugarbush. They used to run the mountain weekends only with salaried management for the final two weekends of the season during the early 2000s. He said they broke even doing this or turned a modest profit depending on the weekend. When the ski area is closed, you run at a loss no matter what.

True about the closed part. But with many of those fulltimers, especially those that do the off season summer hill maintenance, a resort can actually look at "fringe" operations at a break even (often at best) as a chance to give their crew a little break before the off season summer maintenance starts. And my hunch is that the crew at Wildcat will be mighty busy this summer with what has become the standard Peak Resort 1st summer major snowmaking upgrades and lots of deferred basic maintenance.

As for the salaried management doing other jobs. I think anyone who skis Mount Snow a great deal, and knows not just the GM there, but also many other department managers, knows very well that you're likely to see them doing jobs that you typically wouldn't expect to see them doing, and that goes all season long! And from a customer perspective, that is GREAT to see(and it's a concept that I personally do in my own business too)

 

[cannonist]

I think Peak resorts have successfully made a mess at Attitash. Everyone of my ski days there this season has been in the pits. I would much rather ski their neighbor Bretton Woods despite the terrain difference. I think Peak resorts have been more interested in running slides and coasters down their mountain than making snow. I just hope the same fate will not befall on Wildcat.