Steepness of runs

[awf170]

I've been screwing around with topozone lately just trying to find the true steepness and here is some of the runs steepest runs in the east:

Freefall, Smuggs: 31 degrees for 300 ft. vertical
Goat, Stowe: 28 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical
Goat woods, Stowe: 39 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical
Upper Wildcat, Wildcat: 27 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical
Black Cat, Wildcat: 22 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical
East Snowfields, Mt. Washington: 30 degrees for 600 ft. of vertical
Main Gully, Gulf of Slides: 34 degrees for 800 ft. of vertical
White Nitro, Sugarloaf: 28 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical
Tight Line, Saddleback: 26 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical
Paradise, Mad River Glen: 37 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical
Black Diamond, Sugarbush: 30 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical
Ovation, Killington: 31 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical
Devils Fiddle, Killington: 31 degrees for 300 ft. of verical
Outer Limits, Killington: 29.5 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical and 23.5 degrees for 1,000 ft. of vertical
Hurricane, Pats Peak: 26.5 degrees for 200 ft. of vertical
Tims Trauma, Attitash: 22 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical
Superstar, Killington: 26 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical
White Heat, Sunday River: 24 degrees for 500 ft. of vertical

Alright, I'm done for now. I'll do some more if anyone wants any other trails. Also some of those may be wrong because I did the math really quickly. Enjoy.

 

[andyzee]

Why are some of the vertical so small?

 

[riverc0il]

how did you get 27 for upper wildcat? 22 for black cat? weird. "steepness" is so hard to measure since most trails usually flatten out. i suspect that is why you used select vertical, perhaps the longest sustained pitch of any run? GoS stands out for it's sustained pitch compared to the selective steepness of other runs you mentioned. most people don't realize they hardly ever get steeper than 30 degrees and even when they do, not for a very sustained legnth of time. salida mentioned it isn't steep unless you are climbing with your hands on the snow. i think anything over 30 degrees is steep if sustained. i have now done hillman's highway a few times, and while not even close to as steep as much of tuckerman ravine, the sustainability of it's steeps is hard to match and really puts other runs in comparison. i like sustainably steep better than plain ole' steep.

how about face and tuckerman chutes at jay?

 

[awf170]

Why are some of the vertical so small?

Because those are the steepest parts. If I did the whole run nothing would break 25 degrees. Let me take the most consisently steep run in the east, outer limits and do the whole thing and it gives me 23.5 degrees for 1,000 ft. of vertical.

 

[John84]

Are the face chutes at Jay 35 degrees in certain spots, or is that sustained for the entire run?

 

[awf170]

how did you get 27 for upper wildcat? 22 for black cat? weird. "steepness" is so hard to measure since most trails usually flatten out. i suspect that is why you used select vertical, perhaps the longest sustained pitch of any run? GoS stands out for it's sustained pitch compared to the selective steepness of other runs you mentioned. most people don't realize they hardly ever get steeper than 30 degrees and even when they do, not for a very sustained legnth of time. salida mentioned it isn't steep unless you are climbing with your hands on the snow. i think anything over 30 degrees is steep if sustained. i have now done hillman's highway a few times, and while not even close to as steep as much of tuckerman ravine, the sustainability of it's steeps is hard to match and really puts other runs in comparison. i like sustainably steep better than plain ole' steep.

how about face and tuckerman chutes at jay?

Black cat is steep but also has a lot of really flat sections. I bet it is over 35 in at the very bottom. Also about Upper Wildcat I did the very edge of the trail on the skiers left, I bet the other side is a couple if degrees less.

And I really can't do the face or tucks chutes at Jay, just too short that I can't get an accurate measurement.

Are the face chutes at Jay 35 degrees in certain spots, or is that sustained for the entire run?

Probably just the steepest part. From the drop to where you reach the trees, IMO.

salida mentioned it isn't steep unless you are climbing with your hands on the snow.

Makes sense to me. Though it is a little different for everyone, it is about 40 degrees for me, and anything over 40 is pretty freakin steep.

 

[skibum1321]

I don't buy that Paradise is steeper than Freefall or the Face Chutes. I've skied all 3 and if I were to venture an educated guess I would say that Paradise is the least steep.

 

[awf170]

I don't buy that Paradise is steeper than Freefall or the Face Chutes. I've skied all 3 and if I were to venture an educated guess I would say that Paradise is the least steep.

I have never skied any of these, but from the looks are it Paradise is very wide, were I was measuring was pretty far out, maybe a little of the main path. So maybe the main way down is only 30 degrees. About the face chutes I didn't measure that but it seems right. And about freefall I'm almost positve that is right, I just measured the steepest 300 ft. of vertical on the main mountain of Smuggs and I'm pretty sure it is where freefall is.

 

[thetrailboss]

Nice work, cheers! :beer:

How about White Heat? Superstar? FIS at Sugarbush?

 

[awf170]

Nice work, cheers! :beer:

How about White Heat? Superstar? FIS at Sugarbush?

FIS is a little less then black diamond. Probably like 28 or 29 for 300 ft. of vertical.

Superstar, Killington: 26 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical
White Heat, Sunday River: 24 degrees for 500 ft. of vertical

One thing to remember is the vertical. IMO adding a 100 ft of vertical is like adding a degree. Ex: a 40 degree run with 200 ft. of vertical is equal to a 32 degree run with 1,000 ft. of vertical.

 

[kcyanks1]

Thanks, Austin!

 

[riverc0il]

I don't buy that Paradise is steeper than Freefall or the Face Chutes. I've skied all 3 and if I were to venture an educated guess I would say that Paradise is the least steep.

i think the paradise measurement sounds right, it is really steep at and right after the waterfall. below that it certainly doesn't mellow up but becomes more managable. but the face chutes are almost certainly overall steeper than 'dise. face chutes at jay (from the real actual summit) is one of the few in bounds trails that i would approach with caution, to the point that i still haven't skied them despite wanting to take a run.

 

[takeahike46er]

Slide #3 - 32.9 degree average for 820 ft. (conservative estimate)

I did a follow up and it looks closer to 35.2 degrees for 820ft. It is somewhere in that range.

 

[thetrailboss]

Hey Austin--how about Outer Limits at K-mart?

 

[hammer]

I know it's from a smaller hill, but one that I've been curious about is Hurricane at Pats Peak...

 

[EPB]

I know this one's gotta be low on your list of trails to check, but Ive always thought that Tim's Trauma at Attitash is no less steep than White Heat and rightfully so, recieves no hype. Could you confirm my suspisions for me?

 

[thetrailboss]

I know it's from a smaller hill, but one that I've been curious about is Hurricane at Pats Peak...

That's a good one to ask about. It is really steep.

 

[Angus]

What needs to be done next year is tape up our ski poles at appropriate intervals so that we can rely on first hand, on-site verticality measurements. It will be noted all over the northeast, skiers stopping mid-trail, sticking a pole vertically into the snow and then running the 2nd pole back into the mountain horizontally. maybe I'll publish a table later on with all the vertical and horizontal pole measurements and corresponding inclines!

this is symptomatic of a ski season that ended too soon for many of us - I was shaking my head at myself when I had my mt. washington map laid out on the kitchen table this past weekend.

 

[alpinemorg]

Very interesting study.

So I guess when talking about degree steepness of a run, I'm unsure of just how to read the number. I always assumed I was judging the degree of slope as if looking at a right angle, i.e. 45 degree would be a slope angling like the 45 degree point in a right angle (halfway between 0 and 90). Is this correct? Is a 32 degree slope then less steep than a 44 degree slope based on my understanding, or am I looking at this all wrong?

Thanks in advance for enlightening me. And thanks always for useful(less?) threads like this that help me through a rainy office day!

 

[salida]

Steepness

As was said in the Mount Washington snowfield thread where this issue came up.

I personally wouldn't think its steep unless you can easily touch the slope you are skiing with your hand.

That being said, I'd like to highlight an issue with Austin's measurements. Not to pick them apart, but these measurements change each season with how much snow is on a trail. For instance a place like tucks would fill in with snow thus lowering the angle. However, a trail like White Heat at Sunday River is a little different. There were many snow "whales" on the trail this year, which would create plateau's of sorts all the way down the trail. Parts of the trail were ~10 degrees or so, however the remainder of the trail was upwards of 45-50~ steep, we even got a picture of one that appears to be concave as if falling in over itself, it was an unreal sight...

So to kind of sum it up, yes the average steepness arguement is valid, however, most people only notice the extremes while they ski the slope. They don't remember that hey man, that slope was a sick 32 degree average slope, they remember the really steep part that was 45 degrees for a couple of yards. It might be better to find the maximum steepness for 100 feet instead of the average steepness for 800 feet.

If that all makes sense...

-Porter