Stenger and Quiros Ousted from Management of Jay Peak and Burke

[steamboat1]

All this talk about new lifts & rebuilding the tram is hilarious. They're not even sure at this point if they can stay open.

 

[steamboat1]

But then again....

http://www.sevendaysvt.com/OffMessa...il&utm_term=0_85838110bc-1e1027843b-286323177

 

[BenedictGomez]

Let's be honest in the East, for truly high recognition lifts, the kind that even non skiers have likely seen pictures of, Mad River's Single and Jay's Tram are on that short list

Non skiers have seen Jay's tram and can readily recognize it as the "Jay Peak" tram? I highly doubt it. Maybe if you live in New England, (maybe, and even then I dont know about that), but trust me when I say that if you step outside of New England the masses have generally never even heard of Jay Peak let alone are they capable of identifying a picture of its' Tram. Hunter, Stowe, and Killington are probably about the only eastern resorts most "south of New England non-skiers" could readily tell you their location on a map. My 2¢.

 

[VTKilarney]

The Caledonian Record editorial board is at it again:

Semantic Difference

Earlier this week Amy Ash Nixon reported on a federal judge’s decision to place the Q Burke Hotel and Conference Center into receivership. The ruling followed an emergency motion from receiver Michael Goldberg who is tasked with managing Ariel Quiros’ assets ever since the SEC declared the EB-5 developer a fraudster.

Both Quiros and Bill Stenger have unequivocally denied all charges levelled against them in an 81-page civil complaint filed last week by the SEC. That hasn’t stopped the federal government from seizing Quiros’ property and freezing his assets.

In Goldberg’s latest emergency hearing, he tells the judge that, in order to fund operations at Q Burke, he needs the freedom and flexibility to move money around across all Quiros-controlled properties. His attorney told U.S. District Judge Darrin Gayles, “Your honor, there is a pretty dire need for us to make payroll and make insurance obligations; the short answer is we do need the court to rule today and allow the funds from one receivership entity to be available for Q Burke quickly… there should be no reason why the receiver should be handcuffed and not be able to use those funds as part of the receivership.”

It means Goldberg, a federal appointee, requested and received permission to commingle and divert funds.
Just so we’re all clear, that’s the very thing that Quiros stands accused of and for which he was conjecturally condemned by state and federal governments.

 

[LONGBOARDR]

au contraire mon ami...

And you think the freezer is cold, lord

 

[mister moose]

Non skiers have seen Jay's tram and can readily recognize it as the "Jay Peak" tram? I highly doubt it. Maybe if you live in New England, (maybe, and even then I dont know about that), but trust me when I say that if you step outside of New England the masses have generally never even heard of Jay Peak let alone are they capable of identifying a picture of its' Tram. Hunter, Stowe, and Killington are probably about the only eastern resorts most "south of New England non-skiers" could readily tell you their location on a map. My 2¢.

In the "any publicity is good publicity" department, Jay Peak already has and is going to get a lot of press and exposure on this. One likely result is many more people will be able to point to Jay on a Vermont map.

It means Goldberg, a federal appointee, requested and received permission to commingle and divert funds.
Just so we’re all clear, that’s the very thing that Quiros stands accused of and for which he was conjecturally condemned by state and federal governments.

My take on this is the Judge here essentially allowed Goldberg to pierce the corporate veil of all the different EB-5 partnerships and corporations, and threw in 2 non EB-5 entities: Jay Peak and Burke. All without a trial. Seems to me this is highly unusual.

One reason might be the enlightening position many EB-5 investors have taken - They have stated they are willing and able to throw even more money into the jumble to ensure the likelihood their green cards will qualify and be issued. Who ever heard in the past of Ponzi scheme targets stepping up to shovel more money at the pyramid? These folks are not going to object to what the Judge has done, and they are the beneficiaries of the receiver. It further shows this is not handled or seen by them as an investment that demands a reasonable return, it is more of a prize in a cereal box where you are glad in the end to get a prize and you hope it is something you can use. Nobody goes out to buy the prize in the cereal box (ie the investment) by itself. There are no other investors in these projects other than EB-5 investors.

I'm surprised we haven't heard loudly from the ANC Bio investors yet, they have the most to lose when some of their money goes to provide Jay Peak and Burke cash flow, and they have no path to earn their green cards as a result. Their money (once someone sorts out what percentage of what assets is their money) isn't getting used to provide any new jobs. Those investors need a new business to point at, not a bailout of an existing one. Otherwise they should get what's left of their money back if ANC Bio isn't going to launch.

 

[Smellytele]

And you think the freezer is cold, lord

Wimps can ride the Tram. :razz: I'll take the chair thank you. It would actually elevate some of the long lines at the tram as well. The real issue is the good trails off the top are not open enough to make it worth riding the Tram and most of the traffic skis on one trail that sucks and is really just a traverse. The chair would honestly be useless for lapping except on one trail so you would still need to go all the way to the bottom and ride 2 lifts to get to the top.

 

[Smellytele]

Non skiers have seen Jay's tram and can readily recognize it as the "Jay Peak" tram? I highly doubt it. Maybe if you live in New England, (maybe, and even then I dont know about that), but trust me when I say that if you step outside of New England the masses have generally never even heard of Jay Peak let alone are they capable of identifying a picture of its' Tram. Hunter, Stowe, and Killington are probably about the only eastern resorts most "south of New England non-skiers" could readily tell you their location on a map. My 2¢.

I live in New England and could not locate Hunter on a map.

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

Summer tourists @$10 per trip.

Yeah, but IF even constantly fully loaded(Which probably never happens in the summer), 8 hrs a day, it's only 2800 people. So...28k per day, minus expenses, times how many operating days in a summer season. Wonder what the more realistic numbers are.

 

[VTKilarney]

From what I have seen on summer weekends, there are generally only a handful of people riding the tram. And it seems as if the tram makes less frequent trips during the course of the day.

I don't think that it is a significant money maker. You don't have the bus tours that you get at Cannon.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Too many of you guys are focusing on the tree and are missing the rest of the forest.
The tram isn't a money maker by itself. Technically, it is more of a carnival ride. In the off-season it is an ancillary attraction for hotel guests and other tourists that come to Jay for other activities (water park, golf, hockey, and especially weddings). In the fall, people do come to Jay specifically to ride the tram for fall foliage viewing. In the winter it is definitely a bottle neck for those wanting to get to the summit. But I'll reiterate my argument that the terrain at the summit cannot support the number of skiers a lift would drop off up there. The advanced trails (Face, Chutes, Saddle, Pump House, Green Beret) are already hammered within an hour of opening in the morning. And you want to put MORE people down those trails? If you want to ride the tram, man up and get there early, then forget it the rest of the day.
Does the tram pay for itself directly? Hell no, but it is a pretty cool component of the overall experience that Jay Peak has become. Additionally, it is way more flexible than a chairlift when it come to off-season use (e.g. hourly runs vs running all day long).

 

[moresnow]

I live in New England and could not locate Hunter on a map.

It's easy. Just type Hunter mountain into the search box.

 

[thetrailboss]

And yet Jackson spent what?? 15 million if I recall correctly, a few years ago to replace the tram after outcry from many over the alternative replacement plans which was what a Gondola and a chair?? Or 2 gondolas?? I can't remember the exact details, but do recall that those options were cheaper than a new tram, but the public outcry over removing a truly iconic lift was compelling enough for them to spend the extra cash for the new tram

Let's be honest in the East, for truly high recognition lifts, the kind that even non skiers have likely seen pictures of, Mad River's Single and Jay's Tram (IMHO more so than Cannon's tram) are on that short list

Try $30 mill


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[Sons of Thunder]

Too many of you guys are focusing on the tree and are missing the rest of the forest.
The tram isn't a money maker by itself. Technically, it is more of a carnival ride. In the off-season it is an ancillary attraction for hotel guests and other tourists that come to Jay for other activities (water park, golf, hockey, and especially weddings). In the fall, people do come to Jay specifically to ride the tram for fall foliage viewing. In the winter it is definitely a bottle neck for those wanting to get to the summit. But I'll reiterate my argument that the terrain at the summit cannot support the number of skiers a lift would drop off up there. The advanced trails (Face, Chutes, Saddle, Pump House, Green Beret) are already hammered within an hour of opening in the morning. And you want to put MORE people down those trails? If you want to ride the tram, man up and get there early, then forget it the rest of the day.
Does the tram pay for itself directly? Hell no, but it is a pretty cool component of the overall experience that Jay Peak has become. Additionally, it is way more flexible than a chairlift when it come to off-season use (e.g. hourly runs vs running all day long).

I'll admit I've never been to Jay but this seems to hit the nail on the head. Especially if summer weddings at the summit are a big money maker (70 weddings over the course of just a couple months!) then the Tram could pay for itself even when it doesn't.

How would a DJ or photographer take a HSQ to the summit with their equipment? And would you want your wedding guests taking a chairlift in the middle of summer in full formal attire? It's part of the whole experience that Jay is trying to provide. When I was planning my trip to Jay my daughter, who loves skiing to begin with, was seriously bummed when she heard the Tram was closed. She's been on other chairlifts and once you've been on one there isn't much special about getting on another.

Too many of you are looking at this through the perspective of a seasoned skiier/rider only. Not that I blame you given this forum's theme, but diversification is the name of the game for mountain resorts to survive now.

 

[VTKilarney]

Does the tram pay for itself directly? Hell no, but it is a pretty cool component of the overall experience that Jay Peak has become.

Well said. It makes Jay unique, even if as skiers we see its inefficiency.

 

[abc]

Too many of you guys are focusing on the tree and are missing the rest of the forest.

Too many of you are looking at this through the perspective of a seasoned skiier/rider only. Not that I blame you given this forum's theme, but diversification is the name of the game for mountain resorts to survive now.

Well said. It makes Jay unique, even if as skiers we see its inefficiency.

Well said indeed. I'm glad there're still many who can see beyond just the patch of snow under some people's nose.

Sadly, that also speaks poorly of Burke. There's really nothing unique about Burke to attract sizable customers, winter or summer. So the new Burke hotel is quite likely to become a pink elephant.

 

[thetrailboss]

Well said indeed. I'm glad there're still many who can see beyond just the patch of snow under some people's nose.

Sadly, that also speaks poorly of Burke. There's really nothing unique about Burke to attract sizable customers, winter or summer. So the new Burke hotel is quite likely to become a pink elephant.

Um, there is plenty of unique about Burke. There is this thing called the Kingdom Trails that is quite a hit for the summer. As to the winter, the skiing is pretty damn good.

 

[cdskier]

And would you want your wedding guests taking a chairlift in the middle of summer in full formal attire?

There was a wedding taking place at the top of Gate House last summer at Sugarbush at the same time as the Brew-Grass Fest, so I saw exactly that. It actually makes for some pretty cool pictures with people all dressed up on a chair lift.

*Note* - Don't take my above comment to mean I favor any particular point of view with regards to Jay's Tram. I have no real personal opinion on the matter and have seen some good/interesting comments from both sides.

 

[yeggous]

It's easy. Just type Hunter mountain into the search box.

Yes!

1) this is exactly what I do for a living now

2) without Peaks advertising or cheating I couldn't point to Hunter either. For the New England skier that place might as well be in Florida.


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[AdironRider]

30 mill is the number.

There was no debate about replacing the tram, but ownership wanted the Feds to kick in cash as the Tram is required to access certain critical federal communications equipment at the top of the mountain.

There are also regulations on the amount of people that are physically allowed to be at the top of Rendezvous, regulations which do not exist at Jay. Hence why the trams replacement was only a double for the two years it was being replaced.

Comparing Jackson to Jay's tram is laughable in the first place though. You can think Jay is a competitor to the cream of the crop, not just nationally, but internationally, everyone else will continue to think you are delusional.