BenedictGomez
Well-known member
FYI, to the numerous people arguing with me circa 2011 & 2012 (you know who you are), please see above.
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Stenger and Quiros Ousted from Management of Jay Peak and Burke
- Thread starter thetrailboss
- Start date
FYI, to the numerous people arguing with me circa 2011 & 2012 (you know who you are), please see above.
abc
Well-known member
Madoff's scheme didn't seem to involve any organized crime.
Consider where the victims are coming from, I'm not sure it's a given one way or the other
VTKilarney
Well-known member
Good article. It will be interesting to see what happens with the Friends of Burke. The energy behind the Facebook page was primarily to get rid of Quiros. While the Facebook group was not the cause of Quiros' departure, he is nonetheless gone. The big question is what role does the group have going forward. Let's be honest, whoever outlays the significant amount of capital for the hotel and ski area is going to have their own plan. This isn't going to be like Big Tupper.
Friends of Burke was originally a Facebook page and nothing more until someone decided to appoint them self as the "executive director" of the organization. (I guess titles are cheap these days.) At about the same time several self-appointed "directors" popped up. This was all done in secret, with absolutely no suggestion that it was happening or request for input from the members of the Facebook page.
If the group is to act as a liaison with the community, I am skeptical that the current leadership is the best to accomplish that. I find it very interesting that the group states that the represent the Burke community, yet only 22% of the self-appointed directors live within a 60 mile radius of Burke Mountain, and only 11% live within Caledonia County itself. Out of the gate there is a MAJOR disconnect with the local community. Hopefully it will all work out in the long run - but it's going to take the involvement of more locals if they are going to have any credibility as being representatives of the community.
I seem to recall what happened the last time leadership lost a strong bond with the local community. Sadly, the self-appointed directors of FOB chose to repeat history. A real opportunity has been missed. Again, I am sure that everyone is well intentioned. But it's sad to see local residents get the shaft yet again. This seems to be a recurring pattern at Burke.
I posted essentially these same thoughts on the group's Facebook page. To date I have had 78 people private message me in support. So there is definitely some frustration out of the gate.
Friends of Burke was originally a Facebook page and nothing more until someone decided to appoint them self as the "executive director" of the organization. (I guess titles are cheap these days.) At about the same time several self-appointed "directors" popped up. This was all done in secret, with absolutely no suggestion that it was happening or request for input from the members of the Facebook page.
If the group is to act as a liaison with the community, I am skeptical that the current leadership is the best to accomplish that. I find it very interesting that the group states that the represent the Burke community, yet only 22% of the self-appointed directors live within a 60 mile radius of Burke Mountain, and only 11% live within Caledonia County itself. Out of the gate there is a MAJOR disconnect with the local community. Hopefully it will all work out in the long run - but it's going to take the involvement of more locals if they are going to have any credibility as being representatives of the community.
I seem to recall what happened the last time leadership lost a strong bond with the local community. Sadly, the self-appointed directors of FOB chose to repeat history. A real opportunity has been missed. Again, I am sure that everyone is well intentioned. But it's sad to see local residents get the shaft yet again. This seems to be a recurring pattern at Burke.
I posted essentially these same thoughts on the group's Facebook page. To date I have had 78 people private message me in support. So there is definitely some frustration out of the gate.
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Michael Sher, a longtime Burke skier, started the FB page and the group. As he says on the FB page, he has formed a non-profit and I know that he has spent several thousand dollars of his own money to form the non-profit. From what I know he invited people he knew to help him with their time and money to form the entity and to help get the ball rolling. They were not "self-appointed." The executive director is an NEK native and lives and works in East Burke. She was selected by Sher because of her ability to sink a lot of time talking to folks at BMA, KT, Burke Mountain, the Town, and other groups. She has already done a lot including appearing on VPR last week.
From what I saw on Friday, there were three people out of 3,700 who publicly complained about these issues. And it was in a thread that was asking for people to volunteer to help and to contact Sher.
Ultimately if you have a problem with the organization you should direct that to Michael Sher--or as the old adage goes, if you like something, tell folks. If you don't, tell the owner/person you have an issue with.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
I'm content to just let the organization go its course. I did make a suggestion that there be a membership mechanism and that the actual membership decides who their public voice should be. This was summarily rejected.
As I said, I am sure that folks are well intended, including the executive director even if she is in direct competition with the hotel. If they didn't feel the need to include a meaningful leadership component of locals it's their playground and their ball. Hopefully it's successful.
My only genuine complaint is their assertion that they speak on behalf of the Facebook group members. They don't. I view it as two separate groups at this point. That's not necessarily a bad thing as long as people are honest about their underlying authority. I could appoint myself to be the spokesman for the NBA owners. But unless they actually select me as their spokesman my saying it doesn't make it true.
As I said, I am sure that folks are well intended, including the executive director even if she is in direct competition with the hotel. If they didn't feel the need to include a meaningful leadership component of locals it's their playground and their ball. Hopefully it's successful.
My only genuine complaint is their assertion that they speak on behalf of the Facebook group members. They don't. I view it as two separate groups at this point. That's not necessarily a bad thing as long as people are honest about their underlying authority. I could appoint myself to be the spokesman for the NBA owners. But unless they actually select me as their spokesman my saying it doesn't make it true.
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Doesn't seem like it from your post.
By Sher? And you do realize that it would be nearly impossible to have 3,700 people run an organization like that, yes? FWIW the non-profit is just forming and they are trying to figure out how to run it and make "members", etc. I imagine that down the road "members" will vote and participate on a certain level. The Facebook Group is not the be-all-end-all.
From what I have seen there is a significant number of "locals" involved at the moment. Ford Hubbard, the Executive Director, a ski instructor, and three second home owners who are in the area.
It just seems like you are coming to this forum to vent your concerns when you could be directing them to Sher or the Executive Director.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
Who said anything about 3,700 people running it? All I said was that the people who run it should be selected by more than just themselves if they claim to speak on behalf of those 3,700 people. That seems hardly contentious. I'm now up to 86 private messages expressing agreement.
Your bar is quite low. The numbers don't lie. Only 22% of the directors live within 60 miles and only one lives in the same county as Burke Mountain.
And you've never come here to vent your frustration with things at Burke, such as Ary Jr.? Did you limit the airing of your concerns solely with him? What's good for the goose ought to be good for the gander.
Again, I wish the organization the best. But I'm also honest about what it is and what it isn't, and I'm just disappointed that an opportunity was lost. That's all.
You said you wanted the "members" to elect the directors. There are no members because this thing is just forming. And Sher selected the people he wanted. They, again, were not "self-selected". It seems like you are upset that he has not asked and just
Again, take it up with Sher or the Executive Director, not here. Sher selected the board. From what I know they all have ties to the mountain. And they are all working with him to get this thing going.
Never said that. We all comment about mountain and with Q it was in particular because they were hostile with their customers. Here, you are getting upset about an issue that THREE people publicly commented on in that Facebook Page--one guy was a self-professed "non-profit expert", another apparently has a beef with the group, and a third one just agreed. It seems like you are one of a handful of folks really upset about this...which is nothing really.
Good. Wish them the best, and move on. It's clear that you have an ax to grind here for whatever reason if you have spent this much energy on this.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
I'm not at all upset and I've got no axe to grind. You seem to be purposely ignoring my previous statement that I believe that everyone is well intentioned. What you dismissively call an "axe" is merely my hope to see more local representation than 11% - especially for a group that holds itself out as being representative of the local community. I don't think that's an absurd hope. I've historically been a champion for local people and local organizations. I haven't fled to another state, despite the fact that I'd be much more wealthy if I had taken advantage of some opportunities to do so. I'm invested in the NEK and have staked my future on this area. I believe in this area and most importantly its people.
As one of the most opinionated people on this forum, I'm perplexed that you would be taken aback at my having an opinion. This is a forum, and a thread about Burke, right?
The group is evolving. I fully respect that. But it's first evolution has largely eschewed locals. I just hope that it evolves from being dominated by non-local interests to more of a balance. Call me old fashioned, but I've always seen balance as a positive.
But your point is well taken. Let's move on. I'm more than happy to respect your request.
As one of the most opinionated people on this forum, I'm perplexed that you would be taken aback at my having an opinion. This is a forum, and a thread about Burke, right?
The group is evolving. I fully respect that. But it's first evolution has largely eschewed locals. I just hope that it evolves from being dominated by non-local interests to more of a balance. Call me old fashioned, but I've always seen balance as a positive.
But your point is well taken. Let's move on. I'm more than happy to respect your request.
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fbrissette
Well-known member
Sounds a lot like fighting for crumbs in a bread factory.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
Very true. Now that Ary's gone it's become a solution in search of a problem.
Since the group was started shortly before Ary was shown the door, I think a lot of people are confusing correlation with causation.
But it is well intended.
The hotel has changed things. The new owner is going to have invested enough money that they are going to have to have their own business plan. I can't blame them. It's their tens of millions. Not some 501(c)(3)’s. I'm confident that any new owner will have the community's support, especially after what we've just been through.
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BenedictGomez
Well-known member
I never really followed-up on the Madoff debacle after the first few years, so I dont know what was found regarding organized crime (if any), but I do recall watching Markopolos testify on live TV that after he handed the SEC Madoff's head on a silver platter not once, but twice, and yet the government did nothing, he didn't push it a 3rd-time, because he felt it highly likely the Russian mafia and possibly South American baddies were involved, and he was worried he could be outed and killed due to his realization via their non-handling of his smoking-gun evidence on Madoff, that the SEC was either incompetent, or that worse perhaps someone high up at the SEC was protecting Madoff and was in on the crime.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
Here is the list of "directors" as reported by the founder of the Friends of Burke Facebook page. The list has been up for a couple of days, but in case anyone missed it I thought that I would post it here so these people can be recognized and given thanks. I know that there is at least one error that has persisted regarding residence, but the names are correct.
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Why the quotations around directors?
VTKilarney
Well-known member
I was just distinguishing them from the executive director. I've never claimed to be a grammatical whiz.
abc
Well-known member
Except the SEC did move on Madoff. It just took longer than the whistle blower would believe it should take. The same in the Jay/Burke case.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Incorrect.
I just found it a little odd for you to make several posts being not only critical of the selection process, but also who was selected as directors and then follow up that sequence of posts with "directors" in quotations and asking folks to thank them.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
Just a coincidence. I've never questioned whatsoever that these people are the directors. My issue is with the selection process as a system and not the actual people. Perhaps I should have been more clear about that. These people really do deserve our thanks - especially when you take into account the pay.
Well... with one exception. One director has known for at least a couple of days that their residence is misrepresented to suggest that they have a local residential presence and they've done nothing publicly to correct that misrepresentation. I definitely don't respect that. It's important that people have accurate information and I just don't understand persisting in an inaccuracy that could have been corrected so easily. It's certainly not the start that I would choose. But maybe I'm just making a mountain out of a molehill. I think the true locals, myself included, are sensitive right now to outsiders making an imprint on the operation of the mountain. The error regarding residency can be measured in thousands of miles (a hair over 2,000 to be exact), so it's not trivial for a group that purports to represent local interests.
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