Stenger and Quiros Ousted from Management of Jay Peak and Burke

[drjeff]

An interesting comment from an industry guy over on snow journal about some potential "door opening" for the Tram to run both this summer and next winter as the entire upgrade process takes place IN STAGES....

http://www.snowjournal.com/discussion/725/jay-peak-tram#latest

 

[machski]

I still love how the state says it has been carrying too much weight since 1966 but is most concerned with the carriages which are considerably newer (the original cars and carriages were retired in the late 90's IIRC). If they are concerned about overweight, shouldn't they be worried about track rope anchor points and the towers, maybe even more so than the carriages. Something just doesn't add up for me with this.

 

[crystalmountainskier]

I still love how the state says it has been carrying too much weight since 1966 but is most concerned with the carriages which are considerably newer (the original cars and carriages were retired in the late 90's IIRC). If they are concerned about overweight, shouldn't they be worried about track rope anchor points and the towers, maybe even more so than the carriages. Something just doesn't add up for me with this.

The carriages are original. From Garaventa's engineering assessment: "the carriage, in operation since 1966, has accomplished approximately 350’000 to 400’000 trips. Last known overhaul of the carriages was done in 2000. Doppelmayr/Garaventa specifies at least a 6-year interval to overhaul the carriage (complete disassembling). If cracks, deformations or any other anomalies are detected the interval goes down to 4 years or even less."

 

[BenedictGomez]

The reduction in overall uphill capacity isn't necessarily equal to the impact on other lifts though. If a certain number of people were always waiting in line at the tram and now are in line at other lifts, the impact will be bigger than just a 2.8% reduction in lift capacity. While those people were waiting in line for the tram they were essentially "off the mountain". (Hopefully what I mean comes across as it makes sense in my head but I'm having a hard time explaining it in words).

Yes, that's exactly how I'm thinking about it, from the enjoyment factor and the "hampering of other lift lines" factor, because there are often a few hundred people in that Pirates of the Caribbean tram line. Nobody from this website mind you, but there are tons of people on that tram line.

The Flyer will likely take the brunt of the increase and the result may end up being people adjusting how they ski the mountain.

Without a doubt, and there are already times when that line gets ugly. I wouldnt even contemplate skiing Jay next year during holidays because of this. And I already avoid Canuck break there, but that's an obvious no-go too.

The carriages are original. From Garaventa's engineering assessment: "the carriage, in operation since 1966, has accomplished approximately 350’000 to 400’000 trips. Last known overhaul of the carriages was done in 2000. Doppelmayr/Garaventa specifies at least a 6-year interval to overhaul the carriage (complete disassembling). If cracks, deformations or any other anomalies are detected the interval goes down to 4 years or even less."

Interesting info, but net/net, any way you slice it State of Vermont wasn't doing its' job.

Can you imagine if god forbid there was an accident with that thing? Beyond the human tragedy, I imagine the legal repercussions would have been absolutely staggering had that thing gone down with 50 or 60 people on it.

 

[benski]

Interesting info, but net/net, any way you slice it State of Vermont wasn't doing its' job.

Can you imagine if god forbid there was an accident with that thing? Beyond the human tragedy, I imagine the legal repercussions would have been absolutely staggering had that thing gone down with 50 or 60 people on it.

I would assumes The way the weight capacity of a tram recently changed.

 

[zoomzoom]

let's hope the original 1966 concrete is assessed as "adequate for the loads.

"A civil engineer need to establish an Engineering assessment for the foundations. As soon as
Garaventa receives the order for this contract, we start with the recalculation to provide the
reaction loads onto the foundations. At that time together, the civil engineer and our steel
structure specialist can define the way to upgrade anchor fixations."

the 4.9m quote has exclusions, very expensive and all on jay.

one in particular may be problematic, that is ensuring the entire system constructed in 1966 will be in compliance with current regs.

 

[sull1102]

One idea, could they put in a cheap T-bar where the double was? Could cost $500K or in that neighborhood. Almost leave the tram for the new owners to deal with. Otherwise, if they do nothing, how do season pass holders feel knowing they were screwed over and lied to?

 

[machski]

So now we know they hung shinny new boxes on a system they did nothing to upgrade. I am amazed whoever they contracted to build the new trams and arms was willing to just hang them on the original carriages. Nuts. Maybe the better solution is a gondolla up the tram line to the ridge that is Northway and end it there. Then run a jig back Tram (like snowbasin or big Sky's) from there to the summit tram station. That set up would allow for multi season use of the summit.

 

[xlr8r]

So now we know they hung shinny new boxes on a system they did nothing to upgrade. I am amazed whoever they contracted to build the new trams and arms was willing to just hang them on the original carriages. Nuts. Maybe the better solution is a gondolla up the tram line to the ridge that is Northway and end it there. Then run a jig back Tram (like snowbasin or big Sky's) from there to the summit tram station. That set up would allow for multi season use of the summit.

I think long term something like that makes sense, although I don't think building a gondola is needed when the Freezer is already there. If I were the new owners Jay planning long term, I would remove the Tram and demolish the Sky Haus. I would replace the Bonaventure quad with a detach lift, probably a quad do to the low trail capacity. I would build a new lodge similar to the new Peak Lodge at Killington on the saddle area between the top of Bonaventure chair and Northway. Then build a mini tram like those at Snowbasin and Big Sky to the peak from the new lodge to give Jay still a tram and still a signature low capacity lift to the summit, just on a smaller scale..

Keeping the Sky Haus without the existing Tram doesn't make sense, it is a giant eyesore on the peak similar to the old Peak Lodge at Killington once that gondola was removed. And the current lodge/food space in it is not very big to begin with. The saddle area makes more sense for a lodge as it could be accessed from both the Freezer and Bonaventure Chairs. And if the Bonaventure chair is upgraded to a detach, they could put gondola cabins on it at night and in the summer for public access similar to how Winter Park and Wildcat switch out chairs for gondola cabins.

This would cost a lot of money, so no way anything like this happens until Jay is sold. I do think maybe the receiver should hold off on any upgrades to the tram until Jay is sold. Having a 50 year old tram with only a 45 person capacity doesn't make much sense going forward.

 

[steamboat1]

What Jay needs is a roller coaster to compliment the water park.

 

[fbrissette]

An interesting comment from an industry guy over on snow journal about some potential "door opening" for the Tram to run both this summer and next winter as the entire upgrade process takes place IN STAGES....

http://www.snowjournal.com/discussion/725/jay-peak-tram#latest

The receiver, at the homeowner meeting yesterday, pretty much guaranteed that the Tram will be back running within a couple of weeks and that they would run it through the winter while doing the needed work.

 

[bigbog]

So now we know they hung shinny new boxes on a system they did nothing to upgrade. I am amazed whoever they contracted to build the new trams and arms was willing to just hang them on the original carriages....

What, shoddy work to cut corners...between business and state government? = tradition.

 

[thetrailboss]

The receiver, at the homeowner meeting yesterday, pretty much guaranteed that the Tram will be back running within a couple of weeks and that they would run it through the winter while doing the needed work.

How can that be?


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[VTKilarney]

How can that be?

You haven't been staying up on what the media is reporting. The state has made it clear that the tram can start running once they have a legally binding contract for the maintenance work - with terms and a schedule that the state has approved. This has been reported for a couple of days now.

It was also right there in the Findings and Order for Corrective Action that issued from the state. (That's the document that started this mess.) The Order says: "The following work must be satisfactorily completed, or otherwise approved before operating the Tram:"

 

[cdskier]

You haven't been staying up on what the media is reporting. The state has made it clear that the tram can start running once they have a legally binding contract for the maintenance work - with terms and a schedule that the state has approved.

So glad the state cares so much about safety that they will let it run as long as a contract is signed that says it will be fixed in the future!

 

[thetrailboss]

You haven't been staying up on what the media is reporting. The state has made it clear that the tram can start running once they have a legally binding contract for the maintenance work - with terms and a schedule that the state has approved. This has been reported for a couple of days now.

It was also right there in the Findings and Order for Corrective Action that issued from the state. (That's the document that started this mess.) The Order says: "The following work must be satisfactorily completed, or otherwise approved before operating the Tram:"

Where are you seeing that? The BFP, VTD, and the actual order seem pretty clear. Plus the nature of the issues (carriages and foundations) are pretty serious.


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[VTKilarney]

Where are you seeing that? The BFP, VTD, and the actual order seem pretty clear. Plus the nature of the issues (carriages and foundations) are pretty serious.

Here is a link to the State's Order: https://liftblog.com/2016/06/02/state-of-vermont-orders-jay-peak-tram-closed/

I agree. The Order is clear. The work must be completed "or otherwise approved."

But this is old news. The state has confirmed this ever since it was mis-reported that the tram could not operate until the work was done.

 

[thetrailboss]

Here's the order.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/...tate-orders-jay-peak-tram-shut-down/85299034/

The final two paragraphs pretty clearly require the work to be completed to the State's satisfaction before opening.

Yes, the order earlier does leave a little bit of wiggle room, and I'm sure Jay will try to negotiate. A handful do share your thoughts that they will get a "work approved", but done later, compromise, but I am skeptical.


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[xlr8r]

Imagine the lawsuits if the tram operates again and has an accident before the repair work is complete. This doesn't make any sense.

 

[VTKilarney]

From the June 3rd Caledonian Record:

"All repairs and preparations for other upgrades will be in place by the time that state inspectors come to the resort to load-test and approve the work schedule, allowing the tram to operate for the summer season, hopefully beginning in mid-June, Wright said."

“I believe that Jay Peak management intends to provide the receiver with a copy of the order and seek permission to enter into contracts to get the required work done,” Monahan stated.
Monahan detailed a list of work and documents that must be “completed or otherwise approved” before the tram can operate again. Wright said that some of the work has to be in progress for the tram to be allowed to operate. The state Passenger Tramway program engineers want to see details about the design, load information, tower structure drawings and manuals."

Monahan is in charge of the Safety Division of the Department of Labor.

So, again... this information has been out there for a couple of days. Since I am checking in much less frequently I didn't have a chance to point this out.

I'm not willing to accuse Wright of lying. In any event, Monahan wrote the order and he says that as long as some of the work is in progress, the tram will be allowed to operate. That's from the author's mouth.