Stockpiling Snow

[KingM]

Think about the top of Lincoln Peak, above Jester and Organ Grinder, where the old gondola used to stop. What would keep Sugarbush from building a huge, enormous mound of snow on the highest, coldest part of the mountain, then having a way to stretch a tarp between four poles whenever it rained to chanel the rain around the pile of snow. Then, when the risk of rain has passed, you could push this snow onto the trails. It would allow you to protect your snow and recover from a rain event faster than anyone else.

Covering a pile of snow to keep the rain off it has got to be a dumb idea for some reason or another or I figure the resorts would already do it. But I can't figure out why.

 

[Greg]

Down here in the SNE, we have to stockpile snow. Sundown blows a mound at the summit and some more at the base. The tarping thing might not be worth the effort, especially on a windy 4K'+ summit. Just letting the rain drain through the snow might suffice.

 

[Brettski]

where the old gondola used to stop

Whoa....like when did that dissappear....60's? 70's?

EDIT: It's time to update your website

 

[wa-loaf]

Think about the top of Lincoln Peak, above Jester and Organ Grinder, where the old gondola used to stop. What would keep Sugarbush from building a huge, enormous mound of snow on the highest, coldest part of the mountain, then having a way to stretch a tarp between four poles whenever it rained to chanel the rain around the pile of snow. Then, when the risk of rain has passed, you could push this snow onto the trails. It would allow you to protect your snow and recover from a rain event faster than anyone else.

Covering a pile of snow to keep the rain off it has got to be a dumb idea for some reason or another or I figure the resorts would already do it. But I can't figure out why.

I think the bigger mountains kinda do that without the centralized stockpile. Because the snow lasts longer on the higher trails they often push some of that cover down the hill in the spring to keep things going at the base.

 

[thetrailboss]

It's a good idea, but as Greg mentioned, it is very exposed up there and wind/fog would eat at it. Also, they would have to move the dead man for the winch cat because that is up there....

And I'm not sure how big it would be, but really you lose snow at the base before the summit typically, so I'm not sure if having a ton of snow at the top is particularly helpful.

Something to consider...

 

[bvibert]

At a bigger mountain you'd probably be better off having a bunch of smaller piles so it'd be easier to push it where it needs to be. The tarp idea sounds somewhat reasonable to me, depending on how big the pile is, but I'm not sure how much it would really help...

 

[davidhowland14]

It would probably be easier to push a pile of snow down a hill than make a bunch. But you're still expending the energy to make it, and, unless you're like jiminy with your snowmkaing pond at the top of the hill, you're still expending the energy to pump the water up the hill. I think it's easier for the hills to just blow new snow when they need it rather then blow it all when it's cold and rely on being able to push it arouund.

 

[TreeLine]

Most places do stockpile snow, but mostly its not done in a mound distribution. They usually blow a tremendous base on a trail that has elevation and limited exposure. That way they can take from that trail if needed. By blowing a trail instead of a mound you are getting instant value out of the investment in snowmaking and also by creating a mound after a few weeks it would be compacted to the point that I'm guessing a great percentage of "usable" snow would be lost and all the energy and money in making a huge pile would be wasted. And if you end up geting a rain/warm spell and that pile goes by by - its like throwing money down the drain. The tarp idea seems impracticle on many fronts. For one, the size would have to enormous and it would be a big PIA dealing with it. Also, by covering the ground you are harnessing all that geothermal energy in a confined place instead of letting it diffuse with the atmosphere so snowmelt would be exponentially increased. And if it rains/warms you are basicially creating a greenhouse and you'd see that snow vanish even quicker. But.. it might be fun to see the environmentalist rxn to tarp covering one of the higher peaks in vermont!!!

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Last December at Blue mountain there were several inversions where they could blow snow at the base but not at the summit. When bare spots started to develop at the summit..They filled a dump truck with snow from the base and it went up a snowless green trail and filled in the Bare Spots..it was Mad Steezy Yo until it hit 70 degrees and rained in early January and they had to shut-down for 5 days..

 

[bvibert]

AFAIK snow in a big pile is going to melt more slowly than snow spread out on a trail. The pile has much less surface area for the snow to evaporate. Like Greg said above, Sundown stockpiles the snow and spreads it out when needed. The pile is usually at least partially there all the way to the end of the season when they need to spread it out the rest of it to extend the season. No problems with it being unusable...

 

[loafer89]

A few resorts in Europe are now covering their glaciers in the summer with a UV reflecting tarp to prevent snow loss. Zugspitze in Germany does this on the Schneeferner Glacier an the results at the end of the summer are dramatic with the glacier being bare except for where the tarp was.

Blackcomb is going to try to preserve the Hortsman glacier with a similar idea and also make snow on the glacier to slow it's decline.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

A few resorts in Europe are now covering their glaciers in the summer with a UV reflecting tarp to prevent snow loss. Zugspitze in Germany does this on the Schneeferner Glacier an the results at the end of the summer are dramatic with the glacier being bare except for where the tarp was.

Blackcomb is going to try to preserve the Hortsman glacier with a similar idea and also make snow on the glacier to slow it's decline.

Wow so Al Gore might be right about global warming..:flame:Wow snowmaking on a glacier...crazy

 

[TreeLine]

In regard to the surface area comment, I agree that evap would be increased. My point was that I feel with the settling of the snow the benefit of making snow to lose snow through compaction and in the interim not being used seems counterintuitive and rather inefficient. But your point is well taken. I guess the resorts need to figure out where to take there losses - probaly why you see some places do this more than others. In essence by providing a base on a trail its the same principle of a mound (although increased evap and increased skier traffic) but at least its being used.

As a side note and a rant: warning: its off topic - There is this knucklehead on tv right now going off about global warming so its gotten me a little fired up>

The comment on the UV tarp is interesting. I'm not familiar with the blackcomb glacier - is blowing snow going to stop a glacier melt? Would'nt a UV tarp just redirect that energy somewhere else? - it might preserve that little area from the sun's thermal energy but doesnt seem to me to be a fix. I think all these little fixes will just cause problems somewhere else. Just tipping the scale causing more chaos. I love how all these decisions/outcomes about global warming are causing all this panic. How the hell are we supposed to judge our climate when we only have data for 100+- years out of the billions that the earth has been in existence. Statistically the data is just not significant. I know i am going to get a bunch of comments back stating "yes it is, I saw an inconvenient truth, and all this data backs it up." Well, sure, data can be interpreted any way, but really how were the studies done? sample size? controls? variables?. They never tell the public this stuff because its all a political stance and its works - sad world we live in. All these measures are being taken to prevent these polar ice caps and all this money is being WASTED based on a very miniscule amount of data. Does global warming exist? maybe, but are we making educated decisions on resource allocation in this world, when we put all this money into GW prevention when no one can agree if it even exists. Hell, we can fund for a UV blanket on a glacier (i'm not even going to guess what the R&D costs were for that) but we cant even provide basic health care for a substantial amount of the children in this country.

My point - places like blackcomb trying to save a glacier - use that money and do something worthwhile with it. Hell, add a new chairlift/new trails - their is more data backing that investment!

 

[MrMagic]

Last December at Blue mountain there were several inversions where they could blow snow at the base but not at the summit. When bare spots started to develop at the summit..They filled a dump truck with snow from the base and it went up a snowless green trail and filled in the Bare Spots..it was Mad Steezy Yo until it hit 70 degrees and rained in early January and they had to shut-down for 5 days..

let hope that part about 70 degres and rain and shutting down doesnt happen this year, killington use! to be the king of stock pile snow, IE superstar, the pile has been getting smaller and smaller with each year, no hope for the monster pile this year