Sugarbush is being sold to Alterra...

[BenedictGomez]

Remember, this is only the second year of the Ikon Pass. Epic has been around for a lot longer.

Yeah, EPIC is a more mature product and IKON is still aggressively ramping, I was just pointing out that at the moment EPIC sales are greatly in excess of IKON sales. It will be interesting to see if Alterra makes its' numbers public again this year (I hope so).

 

[machski]

Glad SB decided to do this and not Killington.

Two totally different animals, K and SB. K could not just decide to do this, they are park of Powdr which itself is one of the conglomerates Win cited as part of his decision to end SB's independant streak. I am beginning to think a Powdr/Boyne merger is the most likely next step in the merger games. Those two combined would be a powerful force and make them almost as big as Vail and Alterra.

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[JimG.]

Two totally different animals, K and SB. K could not just decide to do this, they are park of Powdr which itself is one of the conglomerates Win cited as part of his decision to end SB's independant streak. I am beginning to think a Powdr/Boyne merger is the most likely next step in the merger games. Those two combined would be a powerful force and make them almost as big as Vail and Alterra.

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Ya I'm aware of the differences. SB selling out scares me though. If they can why not K?

Thought about a Powdr/Boyne merger too. Not attractive to me either.

If anyone doesn't already know by now I am not a fan of the consolidation going on. And I fear that in 10 years we will all look back on these mergers and realize how they killed skiing as we know it today.

 

[cdskier]

Ya I'm aware of the differences. SB selling out scares me though. If they can why not K?

Much easier for an individual owner/resort to decide to sell than it would be for a larger company to agree to sell off one of their major assets. Powdr would have to be in major financial trouble or get one hell of an offer to sell off K.

 

[VTKilarney]

Ya I'm aware of the differences. SB selling out scares me though. If they can why not K?

Thought about a Powdr/Boyne merger too. Not attractive to me either.

If anyone doesn't already know by now I am not a fan of the consolidation going on. And I fear that in 10 years we will all look back on these mergers and realize how they killed skiing as we know it today.

I’d hate to be Bolton, Magic, Bromley or Burke right now.

 

[machski]

I’d hate to be Bolton, Magic, Bromley or Burke right now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Bromley part of a smaller conglomerate of Jimminy and Cranmore if not more?

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[boston_e]

Two totally different animals, K and SB. K could not just decide to do this, they are park of Powdr which itself is one of the conglomerates Win cited as part of his decision to end SB's independant streak. I am beginning to think a Powdr/Boyne merger is the most likely next step in the merger games. Those two combined would be a powerful force and make them almost as big as Vail and Alterra.

Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app

If that happened, it would be interesting to see if Powdr/Boyne would step away from Ikon and do their own multi-resort pass (although to this point Powdr seems to have resisted doing do).

If they did, it would likely be the most attractive option for the New England based skier. Loaf/River/K-Town/Pico/Loon would probably be considered by most to be a better New England combo than the Vail or Alterra offerings.

 

[JimG.]

I’d hate to be Bolton, Magic, Bromley or Burke right now.

If this consolidation continues there will be a NELSAP bonanza in the future. The places you list will be gone, plus any of the unprofitable hills currently part of the evil empires that have formed.

 

[Los]

If this consolidation continues there will be a NELSAP bonanza in the future. The places you list will be gone, plus any of the unprofitable hills currently part of the evil empires that have formed.

Yep. And when that inevitably happens, I assume it will also mean season pass prices skyrocket and skiing becomes affordable only for the wealthy (which it isn't now, as expensive as it is...).

 

[DoublePlanker]

Can parts of this plan be dusted off?
Get Trump to author an executive order overriding the env concerns...

 

[Edd]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Bromley part of a smaller conglomerate of Jimminy and Cranmore if not more?

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I think that’s correct.

 

[slatham]

If this consolidation continues there will be a NELSAP bonanza in the future. The places you list will be gone, plus any of the unprofitable hills currently part of the evil empires that have formed.

Well that depends on a lot of factors. For instance, do the Epic/Ikon resorts price themselves out of the day tripper market and they instead head to the smaller independents? Do educated consumers (like AZ’ers) decide the Epic/Ikon crowds are too much to bare? But there will be an acceleration of the trend to mega resorts offering everything to everyone on a cheap pass (but expensive day ticket) vs. more bare bones operations focusing on skiing/riding.

 

[slatham]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Bromley part of a smaller conglomerate of Jimminy and Cranmore if not more?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app

Yes but small is the operative word and conglomerate definitely doesn’t fit. First of all, Fairbanks Group is a local New England group that only operates those three areas. They started with Jiminy Peak (which I believe they no longer own, just operate), then took over operation of Cranmore (unsure of ownership) and more recently (5-7 years) began operating Bromley (which they do not own). So nowhere near a Boyne or a Powdr much less Vail or Alterra.

 

[jimmywilson69]

View attachment 25576
Can parts of this plan be dusted off?
Get Trump to author an executive order overriding the env concerns...

You better start running I think there are pitchforks and torches coming!

 

[skiur]

People said the same exact thing when ASC was buying up the ski world. They went belly up, sold everything off, and we started over. Whats currently happening is no different. Everyone is screaming that the sky is falling, but we have been through this before and it aint the end of the world. At least this time there is a bit more competition as ASC was much bigger than any of their competition.

 

[Hawk]

View attachment 25576
Can parts of this plan be dusted off?
Get Trump to author an executive order overriding the env concerns...

I can understand the added terrain above inverness. I would like to see that. I have no interest in putting trails and lifts in slide brook. We already ski that. Why ruin it for the people that actually enjoy less crowded areas. No need for lifts there and no need to dumb it down for the masses.

 

[cdskier]

I can understand the added terrain above inverness. I would like to see that. I have no interest in putting trails and lifts in slide brook. We already ski that. Why ruin it for the people that actually enjoy less crowded areas. No need for lifts there and no need to dumb it down for the masses.

I'd agree. And I think most people would agree with you. But I think we're safe on the Slide brook front no matter what some people want as I seem to recall some sort of agreement that prohibits any further development in there.

 

[drjeff]

People said the same exact thing when ASC was buying up the ski world. They went belly up, sold everything off, and we started over. Whats currently happening is no different. Everyone is screaming that the sky is falling, but we have been through this before and it aint the end of the world. At least this time there is a bit more competition as ASC was much bigger than any of their competition.

This is a bit of a different situation though. What got ASC was the combo of massive over payment for the expansion "feeding frenzy" they went on, then right on top of that some massive real estate development expansions (A Grand Summit Timeshare for everyone!) and then the tanking of the real estate market. The anticipated funds from the real estate sales never materialized, and ultimately dragged the company into fiscal oblivion, even though on the operations side, they were able to cover their expanses of day to day ski area operations.

Vail and Alterra, while they now do own plenty of real estate with their resort properties, they're really not developing anything appreciable in the 2nd home/condo/hotel scheme of things. They're focusing on selling lot, and lots of passes (which they certainly are these days) and then once they have the passholders at one of their resorts, then working on increasing their daily yield via food and beverage, lessons, staying at previously built, resort owned properties, etc. Vail and Alterra are functioning much more as a ski company that operates some real estate lodging options as opposed to ASC which quickly turned into a real estate development company that operates some ski resorts. A definite difference between the ASC scenario and this Vail Resorts/Alterra scenario currently

 

[BenedictGomez]

If anyone doesn't already know by now I am not a fan of the consolidation going on. And I fear that in 10 years we will all look back on these mergers and realize how they killed skiing as we know it today.

I dont think it's the "skiing" that will be killed, what I do worry about is that EPIC & IKON will kill new skier/snowboarder recruitment; and that wont show up in the data in a way that can likely be realistically measured for probably a decade. That's the bit I worry about.

 

[abc]

they killed skiing as we know it today

I'm not sure I like the "as we know it today" part. It seems already too expensive for new skiers.

I remembered it didn't feel expensive when I learned (80's). I was a graduate student, living on part time jobs on campus. Can today's graduate students afford to go skiing the same?