Sugarloaf Bucksaw Chair....RIP

[Jully]

I plan to live at least 50 more years so as long as global warming hasn't eradicated all snow by then, I will definitely take that bet. I may have to knock on your door, perhaps in the year 2065, to collect my $10 but I will be there and will be wearing a Mavericks hat.

I mean... You're right about the real estate values I think. However, I don't believe any other resort in the east has an HSQ serving condos like that. Look at even okemo, they've left the A and B quads as mandatory transfer lifts for not just condo owners, but the entire skiing public. The money doesn't appear to be there.

However, if they do end up doing that, they would have very unique condo offerings.

I think a Snubber HSQ would be more on the line of 5 million based off what I've seen other lifts go for recently as opposed to 3 to 4. Could be completely wrong though.

 

[ss20]

You will never in your lifetime see a HSQ for Snubber. I don't care if Mark Cuban buys the place. The capacity is not needed. The ROI would never be realized. I've stayed in those condos many times and the lift is more than adequate.

Ditto. This thread was kinda cool when everyone was joking about dream lift setups. Then when I realized some people were actually serious I tuned out. Guess it hasn't changed in a few days.

 

[deadheadskier]

If I were a condo owner I'd actually be pissed if they bothered even replacing it with a fixed grip in the next 20 years. A lift like that should last 50 years or more if properly maintained. There are so many other areas I'd rather money be spent on. As mentioned, KP, DR, TL and BS lifts. Summit surface lift, Bracket surface lift, more snowmaking improvements, expanded Bullwinkles, new summer attractions, improved restaurants. The last thing I'd want to see is $5M wasted on a fast transfer lift that I ride once a day.

 

[goldenboy80]

Yes, I'm just guessing on Snubber replacement cost as I don't really know. I think long overall length (5,460') is somewhat offset by ease of installation on a flat easy-to-access slope. If they actually went ahead and did this it would not only be a unique opportunity for developers but also a pretty unbelievable place for beginners and very young children to score a ton of laps on a long trail. It is bold but sometimes an aggressive move can lead to good things down the road. If you installed a Snubber HSQ in the coming years, you might not see the real estate benefits for 5-10+ years, perhaps on the back of a statewide economic boom, but eventually you'd see the impact. With a Bucksaw high-speed lift installation you'd see the impact more quickly and that's why I think it will be the next replacement (along with DR fixed-grip).

 

[goldenboy80]

The last thing I'd want to see is $5M wasted on a fast transfer lift that I ride once a day.

I hear you. I definitely would personally be more enthused about replacement of any of the lifts you mentioned- all I really care about is getting in as many runs on steeps and glades as possible. I'm just thinking about base development opportunities to grow the resort to pay for continued expansion onto new expert terrain. For instance, you could line the Birches / Snowbrook trail with a whole host of new businesses if there was a speedy way to get back to the base from the bottom of Snowbrook that didn't take forever. It would also nicely service some of the lower parking lots. Just an idea, may be impractical. Interesting to think about how things could change and evolve depending on which areas you emphasize as a resort.

 

[soposkier]

My $.02 as someone who has skied SL nearly as much as any other mtn in his life (100+days)

A HSQ for KP makes more sense than any of the low angle condo lifts.
The Bucksaw area should be better utilized so perhaps a HSQ over there would serve to open up that terrain and also alleviate some pressure on the SQ.

Sell Timberline quad to raise capital to fund other improvements. That chair may not bring much back in sale though.
I'd rather see them put a surface lift up to the top or even a surface lift to top of Burnt Mtn.
The Timberline chair is very under utilized because the terrain up there is not worth skiing for the amt of time you are on the lift (unless the ice fields are good or access to back side)

A good amount of bengineers and intermediates utilize the timberline chair. Timberline ( the trail) is a good cruiser and has more character than your typical beginner trail. I know a few people who are new to the sport who much prefer just lapping timberline or bucksaw than skiing off whiffletree, DR, or the superquad.

 

[xwhaler]

A good amount of bengineers and intermediates utilize the timberline chair. Timberline ( the trail) is a good cruiser and has more character than your typical beginner trail. I know a few people who are new to the sport who much prefer just lapping timberline or bucksaw than skiing off whiffletree, DR, or the superquad.

That's interesting. In all my yrs of skiing SL Timberline has been a 1 and done for me on the day. I use it to do the ice fields but wouldn't think to lap it.
Surprised to hear intermediates would find enough value in that terrain to put up with the long, cold lift.

 

[Puck it]

That's interesting. In all my yrs of skiing SL Timberline has been a 1 and done for me on the day. I use it to do the ice fields but wouldn't think to lap it.
Surprised to hear intermediates would find enough value in that terrain to put up with the long, cold lift.

I found some cannon-Esque trees up there.

 

[xwhaler]

Perhaps. And I'm sure pretty sweet when snow is good given they won't get utilized much. I will say the views out to the Bigelows and west to the Mahoosucs make riding that lift worth it.

 

[dlague]

That's interesting. In all my yrs of skiing SL Timberline has been a 1 and done for me on the day. I use it to do the ice fields but wouldn't think to lap it.
Surprised to hear intermediates would find enough value in that terrain to put up with the long, cold lift.

+1

 

[machski]

I dought as well a Snubber replacement is even in SL's thought process. But if it were, and if it was going to be something detach, I would think they would replace both Snubber and Sawduster and put a midstation near sawduster base and then run the new lift right up sawduster's line to its unload. Would provide for better distribution to all the main lower mountain lifts this way, not just whiffletree.

 

[Newpylong]

Are we really having a conversation about Snubber and high Speed quads?

 

[skiNEwhere]

Are we really having a conversation about Snubber and high Speed quads?

I was thinking the same. A snubber HSQ makes absolutely no sense considering the volume of skier traffic (or lack thereof), terrain served, and the fact that the HSQ's at the base are overloaded as it is. Not sure how this even got brought in the first place.

 

[ss20]

Are we really having a conversation about Snubber and high Speed quads?

It's so stupid I haven't commented on it's stupidity. Some of these posts are things a troll would post but they're being serious... and people have been replying to them!?!?

 

[goldenboy80]

It's so stupid I haven't commented on it's stupidity.

It got brought up because we're on page 18 of a thread about Bucksaw. When you've talked about everything else you start spit-balling ideas that may not be fun to think about but are responsible- the context is the age of the lift system. Currently, the five oldest lifts besides the T-bar are Bucksaw Double (1969), Sawduster Double (1970), Double Runner (1973-1974), West Mountain Double (1984), and Snubber Triple (1985). That puts each of these lifts at between 30-46 years old. These lifts are slow and replacement parts can be hard to find. So within the context of replacing these lifts, which would be most conducive to selling more condos? If I had to rank them I'd say 1) Bucksaw, 2) Snubber, 3) West Mountain, 4) Double Runner, 5) Sawduster. In terms of being critical to operations, I would say Double Runner ranks first. Whether or not any of these lifts are high-speed is somewhat irrelevant as the most important thing is safety. I know some resorts run their fixed-grip chairs for 40+ years but why risk it. For $86 lift tickets, I'd like to see some of the older lifts replaced is all.

 

[goldenboy80]

By the way, apparently two guys on Sugarloaf Today forum with insider information on lift replacement corroborated one another saying that a high-speed chair to replace the Double Runner is scheduled for installation in Summer 2016. Looking forward to a very crowded Boardwalk and a somewhat less crowded Super Quad if that is the case.

 

[Jully]

That's whack. Hope that doesn't happen. It'll make skyline more crowded too. I'd be shocked if they installed a HSQ next year anyways.

 

[machski]

High speed quad, fixed grip carpet load quad, what's the difference in terms of skier traffic? They both typically move the same amount of skiers an hour (sure a HSQ is faster, but wider chair spacing on them causes similar hourly capacities)

 

[machski]

By the way, apparently two guys on Sugarloaf Today forum with insider information on lift replacement corroborated one another saying that a high-speed chair to replace the Double Runner is scheduled for installation in Summer 2016. Looking forward to a very crowded Boardwalk and a somewhat less crowded Super Quad if that is the case.

They were joking. In fact, SL has removed planned future lift upgrades from its 2020 vision pages.

 

[soposkier]

By the way, apparently two guys on Sugarloaf Today forum with insider information on lift replacement corroborated one another saying that a high-speed chair to replace the Double Runner is scheduled for installation in Summer 2016. Looking forward to a very crowded Boardwalk and a somewhat less crowded Super Quad if that is the case.

Don't think that's real Intel.....