Sunday River VS. Killington: the Snowmaking & Early Opening Oldschool THROWDOWN!

[ta&idaho]

wow...lots of words in that last post...too many to read.

This, too, has been discussed EXTENSIVELY over on www.killingtonzone.com.

To summarize:

Damn, you're long winded....that's the most annoying part of your incessantly repetitive posting.....

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forum...&sid=01464215b837550a2eac94edeabdaf48#p238838

 

[drjeff]

This has been discussed EXTENSIVELY over on www.killingtonzone.com.

Your snowdon horsecart idea is absurd and you obviously haven't thought about it.

I'm NOT talking about a lift to the peak. I'm talking about a lift to the top of Downdraft.

Anyway:

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forum...238803&hilit=+snowdon+triple+download#p238803


Geoff, I do like your plan, and thanks to skiingsnow for fleshing it out. I agree it's viable. In fact, there's already a large cut above Killink that could be cleaned out for a handle tow to run. It's a reasonable temporary solution.
However, I still think the lack of reasonable lodge accessablity is a major downfall that cannot be dismissed. Early season weather can be highly variable and pretty bad half the time. If it's the least bit rainy or cold, or if a woman has to pee, consider what they have to go through to get down:
- Ski from the top of the Glades (north ridge) triple down to the Killink intersection via Great Northern. (5 minutes)
- Ride the handle tow back up to the top of Snowdon. (5 minutes)
- Hike a hundred yards over to the Snowdon Quad for downloading (5 minutes)
- Ride the Snowdon Quad down hill at half speed. (20 minutes)
- Walk up hill 150+ yards up hill to the KBL. (5-10 minutes)
So, that means it takes a half hour to get to a lodge, from anywhere you are skiing, including the poma, and 45 minutes to nearly an hour to get down from the triple. And then if you want to keep skiing, you have to upload again. As much as I love early season skiing, and peeing in the woods.............even I could barely tolerate that.
With a handle tow on Downdraft (or any other upper mountain/K-peak lift), the process would be this:
- Ride the Glades Triple (6-7 minutes plus lift line).
- Traverse over to the Downdraft handle tow (1 minute)
- Ride the 400 ft long handle tow (2 minutes plus lift line)
- Walk less than 100 feet to the Summit Lodge entrance.
So, thats about 10-15 minutes from the base of the Glades Triple to the Summit Lodge, or just a few minutes from the top of the Triple. Quite reasonable. Over the normal course of skiing on the triple, it would not be a big deal to pop over to the handle tow, and go up to the lodge for a few minutes....and then you get to ski back down to the triple on a nice longer run off the top. Regardless of if you think it's practical to make snow and groom Heavenly Traverse, that's just the minimum snowmaking option - it's still not a big deal to cover the top part of GN and or Downdraft instaid. Yes, I know it requires opening two lodges - open KBL for bathrooms and ticket sales, and do food and beverage on the summit. Keep people up top all day.....captive audience for food/bev.
Overall, I seriously caution you about moving away from the K-1 and Summit lodge combo. That's what makes it a real first class operation, and makes the whole thing viable from a functionality standpoint. People are not going to show up to ride up and down on fixed grip lifts, without a lodge that's reasonably accessable, and the K-1 is BY FAR the best lift Killington has to do uploading and downloading on - you have to take your skis off to ride it anyway, it's dry, comfortable, safe, and can download 100% at full speed. Plus they can be running mountain biking on it at the same time.
Killington has to make best use of it's current and inherent assets. That includes the K-1, the Summit lodge, and all the highest elevation terrain. Running a tow on Downdraft sets a precident for establishing a real first class high elevation skiing area, all at 3,500 ft and above. Obviously, if you are talking about installing actual chairlifts, that's much better, the tow is just a temp thing. Two new lifts back up to K-1, one on the main Downdraft line, and the other on upper Pipe Dream, would provide enough lifts and terrain to keep 3,000++ people happy, and a good overall experience for them. Punchline: it has to work, for real, on the hill, for people to come.
Bubba's plan also falls into this category, but I still don't understand why you would want to put a lift from the SRT up to the summit lodge. Why not put it on the north side, from the intersection of GN and Double Dipper, up upper Downdraft to the K-1? Or a lift on the main line of Downdraft. It's a tough sell to get them to run the SRT from the midstation up, and to make enough snow to cover upper Pipe Dream or GE....not particularly efficient, for what you get....a short, flat section of trail. Plus, any SRT replacement is going to go up to the summit lodge anyway, or at least very close...if it started at the bottom of upper Pipe Dream, then it might be worth making snow on Great Eastern down to it, since you were already covering the top part, then you would at least have a nice green cruiser.
Regardless, this is really just a thread about short term stuff........

Of course it's not a viable option if you say so Highway star If K can drag one of those big rental compressors all around the mountain in the offseason to check the integrity of the pipes, I'd bet that they have a person or two in mountain ops, and a few pieces of appropriate equipment to put together a rig to haul folks atleast back upto the top of the Snowdon triple (or even the quadrapeligic) to download (I'll asume that since they wouldn't have to blow snow from the top of K1 over to Northridge from the start that they'd have enough extra air to blow enough snow on Killink to allow one to ski into Northridge from Snowdon. Might take a day or two of prep work with a bulldozer to ensure that the transfer route is fine, but I'd think in the months between June and October that they could spare a couple of hours to do that.

As for the 20% download capacity. I suspect as Jersey Joey said - a non issue. If your worried about someone having eaten a bad mexican breakfast burrito and needing the facilities, just drag a port-a-potty up there- no big deal, and it would cost a heck of a lot less $$ than having to purchase/install a new lift (even a surface lift). I suspect the toughest issue with this set up would be preventing folks from poaching their way down Snowdon on what ever snow they would have made there in an attempt to get open to the base

 

[drjeff]

Just mount bindings to the pedals! Duh...

Got it! And then the snowboarders get to use cages pedals or platforms! A straight shot down either East Fall or Royal Flush, that would really make the last "run" quite a memorable one!

 

[JerseyJoey]

Of course it's not a viable option if you say so Highway star If K can drag one of those big rental compressors all around the mountain in the offseason to check the integrity of the pipes, I'd bet that they have a person or two in mountain ops, and a few pieces of appropriate equipment to put together a rig to haul folks atleast back upto the top of the Snowdon triple (or even the quadrapeligic) to download (I'll asume that since they wouldn't have to blow snow from the top of K1 over to Northridge from the start that they'd have enough extra air to blow enough snow on Killink to allow one to ski into Northridge from Snowdon. Might take a day or two of prep work with a bulldozer to ensure that the transfer route is fine, but I'd think in the months between June and October that they could spare a couple of hours to do that.

As for the 20% download capacity. I suspect as Jersey Joey said - a non issue. If your worried about someone having eaten a bad mexican breakfast burrito and needing the facilities, just drag a port-a-potty up there- no big deal, and it would cost a heck of a lot less $$ than having to purchase/install a new lift (even a surface lift). I suspect the toughest issue with this set up would be preventing folks from poaching their way down Snowdon on what ever snow they would have made there in an attempt to get open to the base

I think your idea is great. It's so easy to implement too. Almost seems too easy. Something else to think about. If they chose to do this, we'd be skiing top to bottom in the Glades tomorrow. Damn!!

 

[Highway Star]

Of course it's not a viable option if you say so Highway star If K can drag one of those big rental compressors all around the mountain in the offseason to check the integrity of the pipes, I'd bet that they have a person or two in mountain ops, and a few pieces of appropriate equipment to put together a rig to haul folks atleast back upto the top of the Snowdon triple (or even the quadrapeligic) to download (I'll asume that since they wouldn't have to blow snow from the top of K1 over to Northridge from the start that they'd have enough extra air to blow enough snow on Killink to allow one to ski into Northridge from Snowdon. Might take a day or two of prep work with a bulldozer to ensure that the transfer route is fine, but I'd think in the months between June and October that they could spare a couple of hours to do that.

As for the 20% download capacity. I suspect as Jersey Joey said - a non issue. If your worried about someone having eaten a bad mexican breakfast burrito and needing the facilities, just drag a port-a-potty up there- no big deal, and it would cost a heck of a lot less $$ than having to purchase/install a new lift (even a surface lift). I suspect the toughest issue with this set up would be preventing folks from poaching their way down Snowdon on what ever snow they would have made there in an attempt to get open to the base

Good luck with that......it's pretty absurd. No wonder Jersey Joey thinks it's a good idea!

 

[drjeff]

Good luck with that......it's pretty absurd. No wonder Jersey Joey thinks it's a good idea!

Transporting folks atleast back from the bottom of Northridge along a relatively straight, minimal elevation gain, existing trail is more absurd than installing a new surface lift that would require a bit of snowmaintence along its route to the summit, and only be used for maybe 2 weeks a year??? WTF

HS, most of the time when it comes to problem solving, the phrase "simple is better" applies, and simple may be because of the logistics of the solution or it may be because of the cost. And this Snowdon type model isn't unprecendented in the history of K, based on the truck to Canyon Quad model of a few years back. It's just that the truck/sled ride this way is SHORTER.

However, since K appears to be committed to a top to bottom opening (which I think is a GREAT idea), the reality is that trucking/sledding or newly installed high elevation lifts won't be happening

 

[Highway Star]

transporting folks atleast back from the bottom of northridge along a relatively straight, minimal elevation gain, existing trail is more absurd than installing a new surface lift that would require a bit of snowmaintence along its route to the summit, and only be used for maybe 2 weeks a year??? Wtf

hs, most of the time when it comes to problem solving, the phrase "simple is better" applies, and simple may be because of the logistics of the solution or it may be because of the cost. And this snowdon type model isn't unprecendented in the history of k, based on the truck to canyon quad model of a few years back. It's just that the truck/sled ride this way is shorter.

However, since k appears to be committed to a top to bottom opening (which i think is a great idea), the reality is that trucking/sledding or newly installed high elevation lifts won't be happening

there will be no trucking!!!!!

 

[WWF-VT]

K should just install human catapults to get everyone up to higher elevation for early / late skiing

Of course everyone would be bitching about the uphill capacity

 

[bvibert]

I've got it! Just station a crapload of mountain bikes at the bottom of the Glades and let people ride down!

Duh!!!

This is the best idea in this thread!

 

[tcharron]

Mother nature helping out Sunday River

 

[jerryg]

Tha snowdon triple is rated to download at 20% of capacity. Not going to work.

Seriously, the ONLY lift that makes any sort of sense for this is the K-1 Gondola. It's fast, has 100% up and download capacity, and has a LODGE right at the top. They need a upper elevation lift, either a surface lift or a chair, that runs back up to the top......

The Locke Triple at SR may only have 10-20% downloading capacity and there sure is heck isn't a lodge or bathroom up there. You've have to ride back down...

 

[Greg]

This is the best idea in this thread!

Apparently you missed my other more adventurous suggestion in another thread of rope ladders on the K1, and blow snow on Cascade. When you're done, just snag a ladder, and climb up to a cabin for a ride back to the base. Pretty cost-effective if you ask me.

But, it seems they're making snow on the north ridge so obviously the MTB solution is the only viable one. Look for a press release on it soon...

 

[bvibert]

Apparently you missed my other more adventurous suggestion in another thread of rope ladders on the K1, and blow snow on Cascade. When you're done, just snag a ladder, and climb up to a cabin for a ride back to the base. Pretty cost-effective if you ask me.

But, it seems they're making snow on the north ridge so obviously the MTB solution is the only viable one. Look for a press release on it soon...

I saw that suggestion too, but it wasn't in this thread was it?

Besides I like the MTB idea better. :beer:

 

[tcharron]

And Sunday River opens, only 1 trail, but lift serviced.

For the past two years Sunday River has been the first resort in the East to open, doing so on Halloween both times, and today, they’re staking the claim once more opening a full 13 days before Halloween and every other East Coast ski area out there. Sunday River will offer free skiing and riding this afternoon until 3:30 p.m!

Sunday River received three inches of natural snow yesterday, October 13, and has used this and the cold temperatures this past week to make enough man-made snow to open.

“Cold temperatures and advanced snowmaking technologies including tower guns and fan guns helped us open,” said Dana Bullen, Sunday River General Manager. “Opening ahead of the pack is a great treat to offer skiers and riders across New England and we’re proud to be able to stake this claim for a third year in a row.”

Tomorrow, lift access will begin at 9 a.m. and will remain open though Sunday, before temporarily closing for the following midweek period.

Open terrain includes the upper mountain and is for advanced skiers and riders only.

Lift tickets starting tomorrow will be $25 for all ages, and can be purchased out of Barker Base Lodge.

Lift access will be on the Locke Mountain Triple. Additional trails may open for the weekend depending on temperatures and snowmaking. Updates and conditions reports will be posted online at www.sundayriver.com.

Lifted from http://www.sundayriver.com/TheMountain/MountainReport/index.html

 

[bvibert]

Yes, looks like Sunday River won this "THROWDOWN":

http://forums.alpinezone.com/65006-sunday-river-opens-tomorrow-9am.html

 

[Highway Star]

Yes, looks like Sunday River won this "THROWDOWN":

http://forums.alpinezone.com/65006-sunday-river-opens-tomorrow-9am.html

The Beast Of The East doesn't let you win,
it only let's you think you've won.

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

Looks like SR just tamed the "Beast" once again.

 

[andyzee]

Now the question is, who's going to have more open terrain this weekend.?

 

[Highway Star]

Now the question is, who's going to have more open terrain this weekend.?

The Beast of the East Doesn't Strive To Win First Place.
First Place Strives To Be Worthy Of The Beast Of The East.

 

[kcyanks1]

Apparently you missed my other more adventurous suggestion in another thread of rope ladders on the K1, and blow snow on Cascade. When you're done, just snag a ladder, and climb up to a cabin for a ride back to the base. Pretty cost-effective if you ask me.

I didn't miss it. Definitely my favorite suggestion in the thread Highway Star's rope tow is a distant #2.