The early season truck ride at Killington

[Greg]

I came across this article on FTO from November 2001:

http://www.firsttracksonline.com/news/stories/100504972969966.shtm

What I noticed mostly was the last paragraph:

Guests will access terrain via a truck ride to the Canyon Quad chairlift and then Glades Triple chairlift.

I didn't realize they were still running the trucks as late as 2001. I wonder why they still couldn't do that today. I know it's been mentioned there are liability concerns, but is that really much more of a concern today than it was just 6 years ago? It's about a half mile and 300 feet in elevation gain; a pretty gentle ride from KBL to the Canyon Quad, I'd imagine. Most ski areas have shuttle buses around their lots so I'm not sure how this differs. This was one of the arguments ASC made for adopting the top-to-bottom policy. I wonder if Powdr/SP will go back to the truck option if we have a crappy early season like last year.

 

[pepperdawg]

I remember when it was a truck ride from the top of K1 to the top of the Glades (I refuse to call it by its new name) chair - maybe 98-99???

 

[nycskier]

Since Powdr plans on closing April 13 we know this won't be an issue for late season, but it brings up an interesting point. Would it be a good idea to put a chairlift from the base to the Canyon Quad? That way you could move early and late season skiing from Superstar to the higher elevation Canyon and Glades area,

 

[thetrailboss]

Why did it stop? Well, IIRC Tom has said that it was because of insurance. I am :-? about that one...they have catskiing in many places, which is similar. I think it came down to cost...and hassle. I know that there were many folks who wanted to ski last year and were willing to hike down and up from K-1. Insurance and liability were cited as reasons to prevent that from happening. Not sure if those "reasons" will appear again or not...

 

[Marc]

It's actually a pretty easy hike to the bottom of the Canyon Quad. The pick up truck ride must have been cake. We hiked up that way when we hit spring turns on downdraft. Nice smooth double track gravel road.

 

[JimG.]

Well, that truck ride was far from comfortable. No seats. You had to stand and hold on. Going uphill over rough terrain and holding onto a rail in a truck bed full of skiers and equipment is far from safe. I'm sure people fell down/out or got hit with falling equipment.

So I can certainly see the liability angle.

Not to say I wouldn't be first in line to ride the truck up if they opened on October 25th.

 

[Marc]

Less safe than skiing through the Great Northern/Bunny Buster/Snowdon Poma intersection on a busy preseason weekend day?

 

[2knees]

Less safe than skiing through the Great Northern/Bunny Buster/Snowdon Poma intersection on a busy preseason weekend day?

or the steelcage death match you have to go through where mousetrap, chute and g.northern intersect.

 

[thetrailboss]

Well, that truck ride was far from comfortable. No seats. You had to stand and hold on. Going uphill over rough terrain and holding onto a rail in a truck bed full of skiers and equipment is far from safe. I'm siure people fell down/out or got hit with falling equipment.

So I can certainly see the liability angle.

Not to say I wouldn't be first in line to ride the truck up if they opened on October 25th.

I'd imagine that this could be easily remedied by improving the road to Canyon and perhaps using an older mini-van or shuttle bus to get to the Canyon Quad (maybe an off-road version). :wink:

 

[andyzee]

Less safe than skiing through the Great Northern/Bunny Buster/Snowdon Poma intersection on a busy preseason weekend day?

I feel safer sticking my head in a hungry lion's mouth.

 

[JimG.]

I'd imagine that this could be easily remedied by improving the road to Canyon and perhaps using an older mini-van or shuttle bus to get to the Canyon Quad (maybe an off-road version). :wink:

Unless they don't want to do it which is why they gave you the liability excuse to begin with.

The ride up in the truck was certainly not dangerous, but it could be considering the litigious society we live in. Throw spastic early season SPOREs into the equation and it gives them an easy out for not doing it.

 

[Greg]

I'd imagine that this could be easily remedied by improving the road to Canyon and perhaps using an older mini-van or shuttle bus to get to the Canyon Quad (maybe an off-road version). :wink:

Unless they don't want to do it which is why they gave you the liability excuse to begin with.

The ride up in the truck was certainly not dangerous, but it could be considering the litigious society we live in. Throw spastic early season SPOREs into the equation and it gives them an easy out for not doing it.

Well, then like trailboss says, improve or pave the road and then run standard shuttle buses. We're talking a half mile here, folks. My initial point was is society more apt to sue today than it was a short 6 years ago? Sounds like it was an "out" to me and another perfect opportunity for Powdr to do something for the skier.

 

[JimG.]

Well, then like trailboss says, improve or pave the road and then run standard shuttle buses. We're talking a half mile here, folks. My initial point was is society more apt to sue today than it was a short 6 years ago? Sounds like it was an "out" to me and another perfect opportunity for Powdr to do something for the skier.

Wow guys, you all want those big promises up front about what all the new owners are going to do. Boyne and Peak get raves because there are alot of promises, POWDR gets the shaft because they play it close to the cuff and make no promises.

Since it's summer and none of these new owners have really done anything substantive regarding actually offering a skiable product, can we at least wait until winter to judge how they are doing before we close the casket and put the last shovel of dirt on POWDR?

Big promises now don't mean squat to me. Show me the skiing!

 

[Greg]

Since it's summer and none of these new owners have really done anything substantive regarding actually offering a skiable product, can we at least wait until winter to judge how they are doing before we close the casket and put the last shovel of dirt on POWDR?

97 Pole Cats is pretty effin substantive ...

I don't mean to come across as "shoveling dirt". I suppose by simply italicing "something" probably makes it come across that way. I just would like to see something innovative out of all the new owners of the former ASC resorts. Marketing, Jim...

 

[Newpylong]

Unless they don't want to do it which is why they gave you the liability excuse to begin with.

The ride up in the truck was certainly not dangerous, but it could be considering the litigious society we live in. Throw spastic early season SPOREs into the equation and it gives them an easy out for not doing it.

Anyone who remembers taking the trucks remembers the ride. The drivers were 16 year old potheads that went entirely too fast for the road (trail?) and rough was an understatement. There is a big difference between hauling people through parking lots than up a trail, no matter how flat and mellow it is. Also, there aren't many Spores at all early season, so I doubt that has much to do with it. The one's that are there are usually decent skiers and have fair conduct. That said, I think the main reason is they simply just don't want to do it anymore, and I can't see POWDR doing this at all.

 

[JimG.]

97 Pole Cats is pretty effin substantive ...

I don't mean to come across as "shoveling dirt". I suppose by simply italicing "something" probably makes it come across that way. I just would like to see something innovative out of all the new owners of the former ASC resorts. Marketing, Jim...

Yes, Greg, I know all about marketing. It's what I do. And when I have a product I have to charge more for than the competition, I don't market it as the low cost solution. And when I have a product with less features than the competition, I don't market it as the most feature rich solution. That's called honesty.

Marketing is great...show me the finished product, the product I will ski on this coming season. I don't care at all about marketing hype. 97 Pole Cats don't mean squat if it's too warm to make snow or there isn't enough water to make best use of them or the snowmakers who are using them don't know what they are doing and blow water.

I'm sure we're going to hear the real story once we get cold weather...this marketing stuff is just hype right now. Once the snow flies you'll hear the same folks who are patting everyone but POWDR on the back telling us all exactly what is wrong with the other players who think talk is going to win the day.

Maybe with you guys, but not here. I've heard alot of talk in my day...show me the money. The only thing POWDR owes you is that they run Killington as a profitable and fun place to ski, something that hasn't been done there in almost a decade. You want innovation from a hill that has gone backwards in the past 10 years? You ought to hope for nothing more than a return to something that resembles a well run ski area.

 

[Newpylong]

I can tell you as someone who has skied Mount Snow since 1987, as long as they have water, the place is going to be burried. The snow makers themselves are very competent, and now that they have the toys better suited for the trails they are being used on, there's no reason to believe you will see otherwise. One only has to ski at Crotched to see the name of this companies game. What you believe as marketing hype will be reality in the not too distant future.

But I agree, let's see what happens mid winter, everything depends on mother nature's cooperation.

 

[Greg]

Well, all I can say is I love the "hype". Keeps me thinking about skiing during the summer. Again, I just want to see some innovation, even if it is just marketing. I just think ski areas can do better marketing their product, creating a buzz, etc. There's a reason the ski industry is a flat one.

 

[JimG.]

Well, all I can say is I love the "hype". Keeps me thinking about skiing during the summer. Again, I just want to see some innovation, even if it is just marketing. I just think ski areas can do better marketing their product, creating a buzz, etc. There's a reason the ski industry is a flat one.

Hard to hype a seasonal product...we're the only idiots talking about skiing right now. I mean, it's good we're here because we're the only group of skiers worth marketing to right now and ski areas ought to be taking advantage of that and placing ads here, now. But we think of ourselves as a large, powerful segment of the industry. We're not. Most folks are perfectly content with warmth and won't even think about skiing until the holidays.

To those folks, anything written here may as well be written in martian...it doesn't matter to them. All that matters is what is there when they think about skiing near the holidays. And that is when the real tale will be told.

 

[nycskier]

JimG, the problem is we've generally seen resorts promise the moon and deliver a lot less. What happens if powdr promise us less and delivers even less!!!!

Generally our hope is the resorts blow a heck of a lot of snow and stay open late. If Powdr plans on closing Killington April 13th does that mean they won't blow as much snow as ASC did?

We already seen a ton of staff firing in Killington. What if the people who replace them aren't as good as the experianced people who were let go? What if they just have less staff and less ski patrol working the mountain.

We are already paying more the the same product we got last year. What if it is worse?

That is what a lot of Killington skiers are worried about. We have to pay up front now for our passes but we really are not getting a good sense how the new Management plans to improve the place. All we see is Peaks talk about expanding snow making, and make improvements while Powdr seems to what to make cuts, revoke lifetime passes, shorten the season and raise prices.

Maybe this perception is unfair and I really hope they do improve Killington but you can't blame us for being a little worried and put off by what they are doing.