The Industry View on Spring Skiing

[4aprice]

I don't think I was asking why any of us chooses to participate (or not) in post-March 15th skiing. In a pre-snowmaking era, the season ended for most skiers and ski areas in mid-March because we were skiing on mud and hay. While the available product has changed drastically, why has the industry made no effort to market the product?

If the industry tried it and failed, a post-mortem on why they failed would be appropriate. The fact that they never tried is what is troubling to me.

I don't think it's marketed because skiing was never intended to be a year round sport or business. One of the biggest obstacles is retaining people who will actually operate the areas. Seasonal employees are just that seasonal. As a business you are not going to keep on employees who may or may not be actually working. A lot of resort employees out west are on contracts as well, that along with land leases with the Feds, dictate when operations for the season cease.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[Grizzly Adams]

as soon as grass is visable and temps. hit above 40 in the flats, people forget there's snow in the mountains. I'll be taking this coming weekend off but cannot wait for the other 3 in April, looking forward to some pond skims and spring fests!

 

[Smellytele]

as soon as grass is visable and temps. hit above 40 in the flats, people forget there's snow in the mountains. I'll be taking this coming weekend off but cannot wait for the other 3 in April, looking forward to some pond skims and spring fests!

I am amazed at how many areas already had their pond skims

 

[machski]

I can't believe the lot of you who feel the industry has not really tried to market spring skiing. For real? Jay has been pushing its spring product for several years now. Sugarloaf has had Reggae fest mid April for years anchoring its push for May. Sunday River in the 90's pushed towards memorial day and while they dialed back from May, they are pushing into it again this year with Saturday Concerts at South Ridge apres ski, Parrot head, and a tailgating festival. Geesh, whether we like not or not, mid April on is a small market to play for.

 

[machski]

And then there is Killington. Sure, it sneezed under Powdr at first, but I think they are marketing spring quite strongly now. And superstar will not be the only option in May from what I saw yesterday.

 

[Scruffy]

... whether we like not or not, mid April on is a small market to play for.

Exactly. The post-mortem Josh wants has already been done. Any ski resort still in business today, knows their customers and how to market their product and run their business, otherwise they'd be out of business - there's no room for error these days.

Come April, any ski resort that had a profitable year wants to shutdown before the bleeding starts. Any, that had an unprofitable year, wants to shutdown and stop the bleeding. Now, some, Killington for example, have carved out a niche staying open longer with limited trails and services, but if all the rest followed suit, Killington would be closing earlier.

 

[joshua segal]

To make Thanksgiving a viably marketed product, most ski areas that play for this market actually shoot for a November 15th opening. It is a needed buffer to convince the real Thanksgiving customers that there really is a product. The best information that I have is that Killington is profitable into May. They accomplish that by pushing the out the end of the season and MARKETING.

Show me a ski area that has tried marketing a late season product (more than a one-shot deal) and not built a clientele for that market.

And scruffy, the 600+ area list of NELSAP areas plus the large quantity of areas always in or on the brink of Chapter 11, plus the demise of ASC, Intrawest, etc. is good evidence that many ski resort (and mega corporations), some still in business today DO NOT know their customers and DO NOT KNOW how to market their product and run their business.

 

[deadheadskier]

Show me a ski area that has tried marketing a late season product (more than a one-shot deal) and not built a clientele for that market.

.

Well Sugarloaf has marketed themselves as King of Spring forever. All of their marketing talks of how much snow they get in April.

They throw the biggest party in the Northeast skiing industry with Reggaefest. Yes it's bigger than the BMMC most years.

Do they have a clientele? only when the weather's good.

I've seen Reggeafest weekends where there are minimal people there and others where it's been a mad house. We've had AZ summits when it's been a ghost town with only 20 trails open the first weekend in April. In fact, that experience is why we now hold the summit in early February.

The weather is simply too volatile in the spring and the profit margins too small in this industry for most areas to go for it.

This really seems obvious to everyone in the thread despite most of us being people who ski into late April if not May. Not sure why it seems so hard for you to accept why many smart business people have been closing their ski areas in April for decades.

 

[mister moose]

I think I made it clear that Killington was the exception and that they have been very successful. When it became clear in the mid-90s that "June 1 skiing" was routine, they added (or maybe replaced) their May 1st festivities with June 1st activities.

"Festivals and pond skimming" remain very successful spring promotions. The problem is, as snowmaking has allowed for longer seasons, the dates for "Festivals and pond skimming" have NOT been moved 2 to 4 weeks later into the spring.

Both early and late season are the far shoulders on the bell curve. More marketing has limited results. There is room for only a few resorts after April 15.

Once the snow gets mushy half the people leave. They can't ski it. Then when grooming stops it drops in half again since large slush bump skiing is an acquired taste.

 

[raisingarizona]

Most people are done with skiing by March. They are dreaming about being on a beach. The numbers that count at east coast areas come from the nearby urban areas, they want to go skiing during the early winter months but by spring they are completely over it. This is why Thanksgiving counts so much. The skiing isn't usually that good but if it's open they will still go. Sure, diehards will still ski in the late spring but they are generally season pass holders, not big money spenders. The opinions of people on a ski forum aren't very substantial to a ski area marketing person. The #'s just don't add up.

 

[joshua segal]

Most people are done with skiing by March. They are dreaming about being on a beach. The numbers that count at east coast areas come from the nearby urban areas, they want to go skiing during the early winter months but by spring they are completely over it. This is why Thanksgiving counts so much. The skiing isn't usually that good but if it's open they will still go. Sure, diehards will still ski in the late spring but they are generally season pass holders, not big money spenders. The opinions of people on a ski forum aren't very substantial to a ski area marketing person. The #'s just don't add up.

Unless you are a ski area marketing guy and have some serious numbers to back up what you said, your opinion is based on your trust of "the prevailing wisdom." And all I am saying is that the prevailing wisdom has never been tested.

 

[deadheadskier]

Unless you are a ski area marketing guy and have some serious numbers to back up what you said, your opinion is based on your trust of "the prevailing wisdom." And all I am saying is that the prevailing wisdom has never been tested.

Do you have data to back up your claim that the prevailing wisdom has never been tested??

 

[AdironRider]

Rough translation of Joshua Segal: I don't believe you as this completely undermines my point. The internet version of sticking one's head in the sand.

 

[SkiFanE]

I can't believe the lot of you who feel the industry has not really tried to market spring skiing. For real? Jay has been pushing its spring product for several years now. Sugarloaf has had Reggae fest mid April for years anchoring its push for May. Sunday River in the 90's pushed towards memorial day and while they dialed back from May, they are pushing into it again this year with Saturday Concerts at South Ridge apres ski, Parrot head, and a tailgating festival. Geesh, whether we like not or not, mid April on is a small market to play for.

In the Boston area, marketing is dead. No more 93No billboards advertising Boyne. No more radio slots. Maybe they market to diehards, but not the bread and butter day ticketers, they are done. Casual skiers are just that - they like skiing, the fun atmosphere, something to do In winter...they have moved on for sure...to their real thing or other casual thing.

Still a foot of snow in my yard and big snowbanks at driveway/road - can't believe season is nearing end - Argh.

 

[deadheadskier]

A summer comparison would be Cape Cod in June vs in September.

On the weekends in June, Cape Cod beaches start to get really busy. This despite super cold water temperatures still. Fast forward to September and the day time temps are still beautiful, the water temps WAY warmer than June, the hotel rooms half the price; just an overall better beach experience. September is arguably the best month of the year to visit the Cape and nobody goes.

 

[BenedictGomez]

September is arguably the best month of the year to visit the Cape and nobody goes.

There's no school June, July, and August, and there's school in September. That's a big factor as well.

 

[witch hobble]

Industry view:

holiday and vacation week skiers = $

mid week and spring skiers: ¢

 

[BenedictGomez]

Industry view:

holiday and vacation week skiers = $

mid week and spring skiers: ¢

I think that's more the reality than a view.

 

[Jully]

There's no school June, July, and August, and there's school in September. That's a big factor as well.

Exactly! There's no school in February and March, but there's school in April and May, so of course people don't ski as much.

 

[yeggous]

Exactly! There's no school in February and March, but there's school in April and May, so of course people don't ski as much.

I still don't understand why ski areas close mid-week during April school vacation. Seriously blows my mind.


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