The new 6-pack replacing the Bonnie at Jay Peak is on its way

[riverc0il]

Would that really be an intermediate run though? If so, that's a major development. I sense that would be an intermediate run just like JFK is - pretty advanced for most.

JFK is a black. That new run could be intermediate if snow making and grooming are done. It would be near the pitch of Canyonland I would imagine since it parallels it. As I recall, the area between Northway and Deliverance isn't as steep as Deliverance as I've viewed it from the lift. The biggest issue with that trail is the intersection with new Liftline (nee Powerline).

 

[fbrissette]

JFK is a black. That new run could be intermediate if snow making and grooming are done. It would be near the pitch of Canyonland I would imagine since it parallels it. As I recall, the area between Northway and Deliverance isn't as steep as Deliverance as I've viewed it from the lift. The biggest issue with that trail is the intersection with new Liftline (nee Powerline).

JFK is a soft black. This new run has exactly the same average gradient as JFK. JFK is steeper in its first pitch but easier after.
This new run has a constant pitch from top to bottom. Almost twice as steep as Northway. A hard blue.

 

[from_the_NEK]

If my calculations are correct, this trail would be somewhat like Upper Willloughby at Burke in terms of steepness. Average slope around 37%. Can Am is around 55%. JFK is around 38% but it is rarely groomed which helps it get a diamond rating.

 

[gregnye]

:-DView attachment 7435

Hopefully they don't get chairs with seats that flip up to prevent snow collection (like this picture). Since they have a "chair-barn" they really don't need this feature and it just becomes annoying as the downhill seats like to flip-up on the windy days (saw this at the south peak chair at Loon--they had to run it slower so that the lifty could flip the seats back down before people got on it).

There doesn't seem to be this problem on the Flyer--but than that lift is not Dopplelmayr (which I think has this feature).

As I said--I want this lift to be as wind proof as possible--even if it has to be as low to the ground as the superstar chair @ Killington.

I would rather sacrifice part of the powerline trail to a low lying--wind resistant lift than to be able to ski the powerline trail with a lift that is way too high above the trees and therefore always on wind-hold.

Just my 2 cents!

 

[JPTracker]

If my calculations are correct, this trail would be somewhat like Upper Willloughby at Burke in terms of steepness. Average slope around 37%. Can Am is around 55%. JFK is around 38% but it is rarely groomed which helps it get a diamond rating.

JFK has been groomed, usually every night, for as long as I can remember after they made snow on it. That may change since they are no longer make snow on it. So far this year they have not groomed it and it is not currently open.

 

[JPTracker]

... That new run could be intermediate if snow making and grooming are done. ...

This could be a problem. Jay is restricted on the acreage they can make snow on. This year when they added snow making for the new Taxi lift and the Learning center they discontinued snow making on Exhibition and JFK. If they added snow making to this new trail then some other trail will loose snow making.

JFK without the snow making has not been nearly as ski able as previous years. I think the snow making on JFK will be missed. The snow making on Exhibition probable will not since may people prefer that trail natural since the snow making buried all the cliffs and jumps on the trail.

 

[Telemechanic]

Hopefully they don't get chairs with seats that flip up to prevent snow collection (like this picture). Since they have a "chair-barn" they really don't need this feature and it just becomes annoying as the downhill seats like to flip-up on the windy days (saw this at the south peak chair at Loon--they had to run it slower so that the lifty could flip the seats back down before people got on it).

There doesn't seem to be this problem on the Flyer--but than that lift is not Dopplelmayr (which I think has this feature).

As I said--I want this lift to be as wind proof as possible--even if it has to be as low to the ground as the superstar chair @ Killington.

I would rather sacrifice part of the powerline trail to a low lying--wind resistant lift than to be able to ski the powerline trail with a lift that is way too high above the trees and therefore always on wind-hold.

Just my 2 cents!

South Peak was running slow because the wind was causing some chair swing, not so the lifties could flip down seats.

Its possible to get chair seats with latches. Doppelmayr's CTEC type chairs don't have latches but the European style ones do, like Loon's Kanc Quad & Tote Rd. quads.

 

[gregnye]

This could be a problem. Jay is restricted on the acreage they can make snow on. This year when they added snow making for the new Taxi lift and the Learning center they discontinued snow making on Exhibition and JFK. If they added snow making to this new trail then some other trail will loose snow making.

JFK without the snow making has not been nearly as ski able as previous years. I think the snow making on JFK will be missed. The snow making on Exhibition probable will not since may people prefer that trail natural since the snow making buried all the cliffs and jumps on the trail.

So what will happen if/when they expand to the west bowl? Will we lose more snowmaking on the main mountain?

We can't keep relying on the new england snow blizzards in the future. I am not going to get into a discussion on global warming but in reality, in the future we are looking at much more rapid changes in temperatures (deep freeze and then warm-up) not just a general warming of the planet.

To conclude, without snowmaking on the essential trails it is better to leave Jay the same size as it is. If they cannot maintain snowmaking on feature trails such as JFK, Vermonter, Can Am etc. than they shouldn't be expanding.

Or just make all the trails in the west bowl glades----no snowmaking=win win for everyone!:lol:

Another of my 2 cents. (bringing a grand total of 4 cents in this thread )

 

[thetrailboss]

This could be a problem. Jay is restricted on the acreage they can make snow on. This year when they added snow making for the new Taxi lift and the Learning center they discontinued snow making on Exhibition and JFK. If they added snow making to this new trail then some other trail will loose snow making.

JFK without the snow making has not been nearly as ski able as previous years. I think the snow making on JFK will be missed. The snow making on Exhibition probable will not since may people prefer that trail natural since the snow making buried all the cliffs and jumps on the trail.

Huh? Where did you hear that? Why is that? That makes no sense. Could it be that they just decided to make snow on lower trails instead?

 

[BigJay]

JFK is a soft black. This new run has exactly the same average gradient as JFK. JFK is steeper in its first pitch but easier after.
This new run has a constant pitch from top to bottom. Almost twice as steep as Northway. A hard blue.

JFK was a BLUE trail for many many many years. In fact, i never realized it was changed to a black... with snowmaking and grooming, it still feels like a blue trail for most of it... except the first pitch. It's probably a "soft black" like you said... but if you don't groom it and you don't put snowmaking on it... then it becomes a "black" just like the Hot Shot is.

 

[JPTracker]

Huh? Where did you hear that? Why is that? That makes no sense. Could it be that they just decided to make snow on lower trails instead?

Back in 2010 as part of ACT250 permit 7R0854-6-1 they discussed the snow making.

The following document explains there snow making plans and limitations:

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/imaging/...a - Snowmaking Coverage Summary Narrative.pdf

I have heard rumors since the beginning of the season about this. I have not seen anything documenting the latest changes but Steve Wright has confirmed that there will be no snow making on Exhibition in previous post and the no snow making for JFK is just rumor. Both these trails have been skipped over in the normal snow making cycles confirming the rumors.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Is the acreage limitation based on amount of water available from the Jay Branch Brook? Or is it some sort of limitation the VT Water Quality Division is placing on Jay?
Are other resorts restricted to a certain amount of acreage? I always thought this type of thing was a water access issue (see Killington).

 

[JPTracker]

Is the acreage limitation based on amount of water available from the Jay Branch Brook? Or is it some sort of limitation the VT Water Quality Division is placing on Jay?
Are other resorts restricted to a certain amount of acreage? I always thought this type of thing was a water access issue (see Killington).

The way I see it they have both an acreage restriction and a water restriction.

I also heard that the were fined for drawing to much water from the Jay Branch Brook last year.

 

[BigJay]

I also heard that the were fined for drawing to much water from the Jay Branch Brook last year.

Yes, they didn't file the papers regarding how much water they pumped in Jan and Feb... so they were fined for a few 1000$... a little slap on the hand.

 

[riverc0il]

Interesting about the snow making issue. I assumed they didn't blow on Exhibition and JFK because of the December snow storms, I figured they thought they had enough natural snow and turned off the guns on certain trails to reduce expenses. I'm fine with Exhibition and JFK being natural. As noted, Exhibition skis much better natural due to the cliffs and JFK certainly is better natural from my perspective. However, those that enjoy groomers would disagree. Goodness knows Jay has a hard enough time appealing to the groomer demographic already without taking two more snow making trails off line. I think it is safe to say that West Bowl continues to be a pipe dream so I don't think we need to worry about snow making from that perspective.

 

[thetrailboss]

Back in 2010 as part of ACT250 permit 7R0854-6-1 they discussed the snow making.

The following document explains there snow making plans and limitations:

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/imaging/planning/7R0854-6-1/Exhibit%203a%20-%20Snowmaking%20Coverage%20Summary%20Narrative.pdf

I have heard rumors since the beginning of the season about this. I have not seen anything documenting the latest changes but Steve Wright has confirmed that there will be no snow making on Exhibition in previous post and the no snow making for JFK is just rumor. Both these trails have been skipped over in the normal snow making cycles confirming the rumors.

Thanks for finding that. All I can say is weird. I perused it quickly, but those limitations are really ridiculous considering that they are growing JPR. I imagine that they will eventually build another pond to allow for them to expand snowmaking terrain.

 

[thetrailboss]

The way I see it they have both an acreage restriction and a water restriction.

I also heard that the were fined for drawing to much water from the Jay Branch Brook last year.

While some folks in the state government love Jay and are cheering them on with their expansion and economic development, there is a group of folks who do nothing but give them a hard time. From what I've seen it has been for relatively minor problems with erosion with the golf course and some other issues including "impacts" on Jay Branch Brook. And for whatever reason it gets into the press and folks make a stink over it. Seems to be the way everything is done in Vermont...the state will applaud some things and others will do everything in their power to kill any kind of development.

 

[kingdom-tele]

its funny the range the word impact has. damn these brooks and wetlands for getting in the way of my 1 weekend a year at JPR. more outrage for mellow groomer development and avoiding wind holds on a high speed lift system so you can ski with 10K sideslipping patrons and bitch the whole day how much better it used to be while drinking a $9 mixer unable to find 1 half way comfortable seat in the bar that is to small

$5250 was the fine if I remember correctly. I can't imagine that is stopping them from blowing themselves.

 

[56fish]

Yes, they didn't file the papers regarding how much water they pumped in Jan and Feb... so they were fined for a few 1000$... a little slap on the hand.

Read in the Chronicle: JPR has a sub-contractor read the water gauges and submit the info. JPR stated they'll moniter the sub's work closer.