The "Sugarbush Thread"

[oldfartrider]

They should dismantle SB let doppelmeyer rebuild it like Boyne has done a few times and use it at NRX.

 

[mikec142]

They should dismantle SB let doppelmeyer rebuild it like Boyne has done a few times and use it at NRX.

Huh...and all this time I thought there were no new ideas to be had regarding Slidey B.

 

[Hawk]

I know others have said this, but without Slide Brook, Sugarbush is two completely separate ski areas and it's outright deceptive to market them as one, shuttle bus or no shuttle bus. That said, I don't think it was the best solution for connecting the two areas. Looking at OpenSkiMap, it ought to be possible to cut a trail from the top of North Lynx around the basin and connect into Lower FIS, and another trail from the top of ME to the top of North Lynx, and then you have a much more usable connection with not much more environmental impact.

The issue with this idea is the terrain that you have cut a trail through. North Linx is at 3300 feet. A traversing trail has to go aound the first big bowl which is very steep, over the 3 sisters ridge somewhere and then catch lower FIS somewhere near the bottom. That is a hell of a long way. I don't think there is enough vert to make that and a ton of bench cutting.
From the other direction where to you start? The top is too near the long trail and super steep. I am sure the US Forest will love that. If you start lower you have to make it to a point higher than the top of Village run which makes it even harder to do.

 

[cdskier]

Simply put - based on the topography there's no way to cut trails to easily ski from one side to the other. A lift of some sort is needed. Either you need a lift from the bottom of the middle going up to either side (which is essentially what was rejected years ago). Or you need a connecting lift as you have now with Slide Brook.

 

[tumbler]

I think Slidey B would get more use with 1) a new lodge at the top of Gatehouse, it's a beautiful view and is nice and sunny. 2) Install a lift running where Header and CR runout meet so you don't have to stand in the Gatehouse line which is always huge on the weekends. Cut some glades from the flats and put a couple bridges in to get across Clay Brook ravine so it doesn't have to be just a transfer lift.

 

[SkiingInABlueDream]

I may be becoming empathetic to the frustration with SB not running. If you don't ski Sugarbush too often and/or conditions are lousy and you're stuck on groomers or for whatever reason your group is unable to explore all of one side in a day, then yeah you may want to just "trace the map" at a macro level, and a ride on SB at least one way enhances that day. Im still content to just stick to one side but, I think I get it

 

[ceo]

The issue with this idea is the terrain that you have cut a trail through. North Linx is at 3300 feet. A traversing trail has to go aound the first big bowl which is very steep, over the 3 sisters ridge somewhere and then catch lower FIS somewhere near the bottom. That is a hell of a long way. I don't think there is enough vert to make that and a ton of bench cutting.
From the other direction where to you start? The top is too near the long trail and super steep. I am sure the US Forest will love that. If you start lower you have to make it to a point higher than the top of Village run which makes it even harder to do.

At a 10% grade (or my best approximation using Google Maps terrain view and the distance tool), the connection to ME would be a mile and a half long and hit Lower FIS about halfway between where Spin Out merges in and where the SBX crosses it. And yes, there'd have to be some bench cutting, particularly where it crosses the ridge between the Slide Brook and Lockwood Brook drainages.
Going the other way is harder, particularly if you start from the intersection of Black Diamond and Lower Rim Run to avoid cutting across the really steep upper mountain. Not possible at a 10% grade, but at 7% it loops around the ridge some ways below where SBX crosses over it, above the Village, then traverses back to the base of North Lynx, about 2.5 miles. (I happen to love long cruisers through the woods like this.)
So there may be plenty of reasons why this wouldn't be practical, but from a topographic perspective it's entirely doable.

 

[cdskier]

At a 10% grade (or my best approximation using Google Maps terrain view and the distance tool), the connection to ME would be a mile and a half long and hit Lower FIS about halfway between where Spin Out merges in and where the SBX crosses it. And yes, there'd have to be some bench cutting, particularly where it crosses the ridge between the Slide Brook and Lockwood Brook drainages.
Going the other way is harder, particularly if you start from the intersection of Black Diamond and Lower Rim Run to avoid cutting across the really steep upper mountain. Not possible at a 10% grade, but at 7% it loops around the ridge some ways below where SBX crosses over it, above the Village, then traverses back to the base of North Lynx, about 2.5 miles. (I happen to love long cruisers through the woods like this.)
So there may be plenty of reasons why this wouldn't be practical, but from a topographic perspective it's entirely doable.

I don't see where you're seeing that...to drop down on the ME side where you say you have to go uphill to make it over the ridge on the ME side from the top of NL. Straight across has even more elevation gain/loss required.

 

[doublediamond]

Capacity on Slide Brook each way is 1222 pph. To replace that with cat tracks back and forth the 10% trail to ME would require a groomed width of 100 foot (plus additional tree cutting for the benching of the trail), maybe as narrow as a 70 foot groomed width if signed a blue. Likewise the 7% return trail would need to have a 95 foot groomed width (maybe as narrow as 65 feet).

In all this is talking on the order of 35-50 new acres of grooming and snowmaking in an area where it was banned and at a ski area already struggling getting terrain open due to water limitations.

IMHO Slidebrook is fundamentally important. Perhaps it should be re-egineed for cabins so it can run in colder weather and perhaps SB should deal with USFS on developing more permanent roads in there such the lift can run all winter long regardless of snow depth. But I will continue to repeat my belief that snow depth is a blanket replacement statement for “we really are too cheap to run this lift until we can’t lie anymore”.

 

[mikec142]

What does "bench cutting" mean?

 

[1dog]

Has there been a recent comment by the mountain regarding Slide Brook? I could not find anything. They do get slammed on social media pretty much every time they post. For me, the lift is integral to enjoying the resport's diverse terrain, without having to leave the resort to do so.

When our daughter was 8 (she's now 27), we left her at Mt Ellen with two friends, age 8 and 9, to ski on their own as they had requested. It was a first. We and the other girls' parents went off to LP and skied all over, ultimately ending up in the woods off Rumble at Castlerock. In the middle of a quiet clearing in front of an icy rock-drop, we stumbled across the girls having hot chocolate and sandwiches from their backpacks. "What are you doing here", we asked. They replied, "what are YOU doing here". They had taken the Slide Brook over. We never worried about them skiing alone again. We would not have been happy had they taken the bus alone and been in the public eye. My 2¢.

Wow, that's impressive.

In Rumble Woods no less. My 14 yr old s favorite stashes in there.

 

[machski]

Pretty certain Les Otten wanted to connect South to North with a series of lifts and terrain pods and the state said no. So it was his idea that a transfer lift would be the next best thing and he got it approved.

They used to run it all the time when it was installed and I for certain rode it most days it ran. I never bothered with the shuttle. That's like the pain in the butt of taking your skis off for a gondola x 2. So, I guess I could see how Les thought it would be popular because I liked using it, but ultimately not enough people do. It probably should go

Yup, and actually the original LBO connection plan was a lift from the top of Castle Rock to Upper Mount Ellen. That was when he planned to string a HSQ up Castlerock. The locals let him know their opinion on that plan quite rapidly and strongly.

 

[machski]

Sell the Slide Brook to Waterville Valley. They've said for years they want a lift from the village to the slopes and it's about the length needed

Please, no. If they ever do the Green expansion down to the village, they cannot do that half assed with used lifts. The plan is either a Gondi or Chondi out of village center with a second station at the base of the true slopes on the Master.

 

[solar]

While we’re brainstorming, my Slidey B wishlist would be to just add some mid-way loading stations in the valleys, similar to Sugarloaf’s. Would completely change the Basin but would be cool to drop down Elevator and load back in either direction.

 

[deadheadskier]

Please, no. If they ever do the Green expansion down to the village, they cannot do that half assed with used lifts. The plan is either a Gondi or Chondi out of village center with a second station at the base of the true slopes on the Master.

Wishful thinking. They used the janky old World Cup Triple for Green Peak and went cheap on their Six Pack that's already falling apart after a couple of seasons. Ain't no way they're going high end on that village connect. If it ever even happens that is. Just a thought because they do things on the cheap at WV

 

[teleo]

While we’re brainstorming, my Slidey B wishlist would be to just add some mid-way loading stations in the valleys, similar to Sugarloaf’s. Would completely change the Basin but would be cool to drop down Elevator and load back in either direction.

While were wishing, might as well add offloads at the mid peaks. Don't cut any trails. The tree skiing would be amazing
That's my dream for the night

 

[thetrailboss]

Wishful thinking. They used the janky old World Cup Triple for Green Peak and went cheap on their Six Pack that's already falling apart after a couple of seasons. Ain't no way they're going high end on that village connect. If it ever even happens that is. Just a thought because they do things on the cheap at WV

The 6-pack was constructed as a prototype for MND who was expanding into chairlifts. You're right that WV got a big discount for that reason (I believe I saw that on LiftBlog). During the construction process one of the big manufacturers bought MND and this was basically a one-off in the U.S.

What's going wrong with it?

 

[deadheadskier]

The 6-pack was constructed as a prototype for MND who was expanding into chairlifts. You're right that WV got a big discount for that reason (I believe I saw that on LiftBlog). During the construction process one of the big manufacturers bought MND and this was basically a one-off in the U.S.

What's going wrong with it?

All of the bubbles are falling apart already. Numerous missing panes and many cracked. Some with issues closing. I'll be there next weekend, but apparently it looks totally run down after just two years.

 

[doublediamond]

Re Waterville 6 pack: it is not a prototype outside of the chair design. It is a rebadged Bartholet , who is a well-established lift manufacturer from Swizterland. There will never be a Bartholet in the US as they were recently gobbled up by the owners of Leitner and Poma. MND was struggling to get their detachable grip to work. Their first HSQ lasted less than 2 years before it was ripped out … with significant down time!

Re bench cutting: The traverse is across a steep left-to-right slope. The trail will need to be cut flat with an excavated slope on the uphill side and a filled slope on the downhill side. A great example of this is the half-built Killington-Pico interconnect: