The "Sugarbush Thread"

[deadheadskier]

agreed completely. i'd blow up slidebrook lift if i could.

No way bro. Make SlideBrook two stages and have it run all the way to MRG. Connect the whole valley! Put a fancy mid mountain Lodge in at MRG with a Waffle Hut. Think of all the weddings they could host! Retire the Single chair for a HSQ. Do it all with only minor increases in pass prices!

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[WinS]

I see what you mean, but to me it's not a preservation of character and instead just a lack of investment. Other than GMX in 2002, Ellen really hasn't seen much investment. If the current lodge was tastefully refurbished then I would think differently about it. I typically only get to ski one or two midweek days at Sugarbush. So far it has only been one midweek day and Slide Brook was closed so I didn't ski Ellen. I don't think anything about the new base facilities would be flashy. Nothing about the Gate House lodge screams flashy to me, and a new Ellen lodge probably wouldn't be as big as that. As some have mentioned, it would be a good idea for architects to use current design elements such as the deck, fireplace, etc. A small courtyard should probably be added where the current unused ticket booth is. I'll create a simple drawing of the footprint of the new lodge. About a year ago I made a sketchup representation of what a new mid mountain lodge and Heaven's Gate terminal combined could look like. I'll try to attach a photo of it.

Slidebrook87, you know a lot but really do not know ,so I would encourage you to be careful of some uniformed comments. We are happy to speak with you in person and answer any questions you might have and help you better understand how a business operates and how decisions are made and prioritized. As far as your comment about lack of investment in ME that is very uniformed. There have been significant investments in snowmaking equipment including low energy towers and guns on all trails, two new compressors, refreshed grooming fleet, new Sunny-Q lift, new drive and communication and tower wiring line for Northridge, many new park features, Walt's Restaurant in the Glen House and additional snowmaking motor in the pond pump house, new kitchen for Green Mountain Lounge which allowed expansion of the menu there, road paving. Those investment are in the millions.

 

[tumbler]

Kitchen for the GML was a great call the burgers are top notch!

 

[cdskier]

Food for thought SlideBrook, I imagine a very high percentage Mt Ellen skiers absolutely do not want more Lincoln skiers to migrate over to Ellen. It's becoming increasingly difficult to find places to escape crowds at major Northeast ski areas. Mt Ellen is a rarity. I know I wouldn't want Mt Ellen to become a lot busier with the only benefit of having Lincoln be a little less crowded. I'd just assume Sugarbush keep Lincoln the cash cow capturing the tourist revenue and Mt Ellen stay almost exactly as is as a respite from the madness.

I've been trying to hint at this without outright coming out and saying it for fear of looking a bit selfish. But count me in the group that honestly has no desire to see more people at ME.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

the lodge is crappy and old and can't handle current weekend capacity, but beyond making hte lodge more comfortable i dont want to see mount ellen change or take on more people. i hope most ikon-ers dont even know it exists.

 

[tumbler]

View attachment 26535

This is a very simple approximation of how I would design a new Ellen base.

Holy crap that thing is a monster! Way too big. Where would the racers be able to leave their skis strewn all over the ground?

 

[Slidebrook87]

Food for thought SlideBrook, I imagine a very high percentage Mt Ellen skiers absolutely do not want more Lincoln skiers to migrate over to Ellen. It's becoming increasingly difficult to find places to escape crowds at major Northeast ski areas. Mt Ellen is a rarity. I know I wouldn't want Mt Ellen to become a lot busier with the only benefit of having Lincoln be a little less crowded. I'd just assume Sugarbush keep Lincoln the cash cow capturing the tourist revenue and Mt Ellen stay almost exactly as is as a respite from the madness.

Down the road at Killington many skiers feel the same way about Pico and are decidedly against an Interconnect that would ruin the uncrowded experience Pico provides.

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It’s one resort though not two like Pico and Killington. I would never consider myself a “Lincoln skier” or an “Ellen skier”. I consider myself a Sugarbush skier. When you look at the trail map you see two mountain areas connected by a high speed quad. There aren’t two separate trail maps and two separate brandings.


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[deadheadskier]

It’s one resort though not two like Pico and Killington. I would never consider myself a “Lincoln skier” or an “Ellen skier”. I consider myself a Sugarbush skier. When you look at the trail map you see two mountain areas connected by a high speed quad. There aren’t two separate trail maps and two separate brandings.


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The comparison is apt. Pre-slidebrook both mountains were on the same map. The chair didn't change anything in that regard. Again there are a number of Pico skiers that don't want an Interconnect and the crowds it will bring. There are plenty of Killington regulars who ski Pico on Saturdays to avoid crowds and they don't want to see the Interconnect. It's been many years, but when I had a pass at Sugarbush, I spent Saturdays at Ellen almost exclusively.

As for branding? I bet less than 5% of existing passholders give a shit about that.

If you prefer the more posh experience, Lincoln is right there for you. You don't have to have that level of services at all mountain locations.



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[Hawk]

Isn't that a little selfish Slidebrook? DHS crafted a very well thought out explanation for you about the locals and the culture over there and you basically crapped on the North skiers and said it was all about what you want. Personally it baffles me how many North skiers come on here and say, "Ya come on over to North there is no on here!" I wouldn't go there. Much like I wouldn't tell people to come into the woods where I ski. Actually that is a little selfish also. But your selfish is worse than my selfish. lol....

 

[Hawk]

The comparison is apt. Pre-slidebrook both mountains were on the same map. The chair didn't change anything in that regard. Again there are a number of Pico skiers that don't want an Interconnect and the crowds it will bring. There are plenty of Killington regulars who ski Pico on Saturdays to avoid crowds and they don't want to see the Interconnect. It's been many years, but when I had a pass at Sugarbush, I spent Saturdays at Ellen almost exclusively.

As for branding? I bet less than 5% of existing passholders give a shit about that.

If you prefer the more posh experience, Lincoln is right there for you. You don't have to have that level of services at all mountain locations.



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We should do a poll on who likes North the way it is and who wants to trick it out like Lincoln. I bet I know the results.

 

[Slidebrook87]

Ellen isn’t exactly a private mountain and the attitude that it is a “local’s mountain” is quite bothersome to me. Sugarbush is one resort, not two separate mountains and because of this it shouldn’t be treated like two mountains with completely different kinds of people at each side. I don’t think I’m being selfish at all, rather it’s the people at Ellen that get frustrated when people from Lincoln ski there that are selfish.


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[cdskier]

Ellen isn’t exactly a private mountain and the attitude that it is a “local’s mountain” is quite bothersome to me. Sugarbush is one resort, not two separate mountains and because of this it shouldn’t be treated like two mountains with completely different kinds of people at each side. I don’t think I’m being selfish at all, rather it’s the people at Ellen that get frustrated when people from Lincoln ski there that are selfish.

You're heading down a slippery slope. Pissing off the locals is a BIG mistake for a business to make.

"More Rock, Less Otten" would be just one example of what happens when you try to do something that causes outrage from the locals...

 

[Domeskier]

Pissing off the locals is a BIG mistake for a business to make.

Helping isolated "locals" overcome the xenophobia and other negative attributes inherent in their simian heritage is one of the better things a business (or anyone else who cares about the future of humanity) can do.

 

[Orca]

What language is spoken at Ellen? Is it an old Vermont dialect of farmer's pidgin English?

We all know that received pronunciation English is de rigueur at the posh Lincoln.

 

[mikec142]

Weddings. More skier visits at north. Expanded GML. Maybe move MTB to north where they have more flexibility with trails etc. so summer income potential. I actually think you can more easily stick a ROI on this vs snowmaking. I’m not saying that snowmaking is not needed, just easier to measure a ROI.


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MorningWoods,

I agree with you that you can make a ROI case for the lodge. As far as snowmaking...the ROI is very apparent. Without it, there is no winter business.

 

[Slidebrook87]

You're heading down a slippery slope. Pissing off the locals is a BIG mistake for a business to make.

"More Rock, Less Otten" would be just one example of what happens when you try to do something that causes outrage from the locals...

But mountains are also running a business... More rock less Otten is much different than improving base facilities and trying to spread out crowds. News flash, you buy a ticket for Sugarbush and get to ski both sides. There’s not any restriction that in any way should prevent skiers from skiing where they want to ski.


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[Hawk]

Ellen isn’t exactly a private mountain and the attitude that it is a “local’s mountain” is quite bothersome to me. Sugarbush is one resort, not two separate mountains and because of this it shouldn’t be treated like two mountains with completely different kinds of people at each side. I don’t think I’m being selfish at all, rather it’s the people at Ellen that get frustrated when people from Lincoln ski there that are selfish.


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The problem is that you don't understand the culture or the traditions. You are young and inexperienced and brash and whan everything easy and your way. But some things are hard.

 

[Slidebrook87]

The problem is that you don't understand the culture or the traditions. You are young and inexperienced and brash and whan everything easy and your way. But some things are hard.

You know that you can maintain traditions while still building a new base lodge right? Why are you complaining about an obvious fact that you have known for years: Sugarbush is one resort with one lift ticket. Mountains are in business to make money and that means that they can’t keep that tiny lodge forever. It will have to go at some point. Why was there no backlash against the Lincoln village even though both base areas are at the same resort? I don’t know.


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[Hawk]

Also, the people at Ellen are some of the most pleasant and kind at Sugarbush. I have never had any issues over there, only good times and good people. They have never had an issue with people coming over. They have issues with people saying that their mountain is not good enough and it should be changed. Now some change is good but homogenization is not what is needed.

 

[Hawk]

You know, I don't know why I am arguing about this. They are never going to to anything. At least no time soon so keep wishing. That will be the fact Jack!