The "Sugarbush Thread"

[cdskier]

Sugarbush is one resort with one lift ticket.

Not entirely accurate. There IS a separate ME only ticket.

Also, the people at Ellen are some of the most pleasant and kind at Sugarbush. I have never had any issues over there, only good times and good people. They have never had an issue with people coming over. They have issues with people saying that their mountain is not good enough and it should be changed. Now some change is good but homogenization is not what is needed.

Agreed 100%. ME has a nice laid-back vibe. SB87 may find this hard to believe, but that character actually appeals to certain people. If you turn ME into LP 2.0, you may "spread people out", but you'll also lose some people that like ME for ME (and could also see the sales of the ME season passes decline as a result). So ultimately you have a net gain of 0, spent millions, and now have pissed off some locals. Doesn't sound like a particularly good decision for a business.

And you're absolutely right that you can make some changes to improve things without going anywhere near to the degree of what was done at LP. Smaller, gradual upgrades would go over just fine. LP 2.0 would not.

You know, I don't know why I am arguing about this. They are never going to to anything. At least no time soon so keep wishing. That will be the fact Jack!

Hah...so true!

 

[deadheadskier]

The slopes are more crowded and get skied off quicker, the lift lines are longer but look at this nice courtyard where I can sit and relax and have my hot cocoa. They also got them fancy waterless urinals that don't even need cakes! Ahhh progress

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[bdfreetuna]

Sugarbush is one resort with one lift ticket.

It's obviously 2 ski areas that are loosely connected and down the road from each other owned by the same establishment. Technically you can ski both in one day if you pay the high price for both/Lincoln but most people, most of the time, will see no need to do so.

The one lift ticket concept is a scam on those skiing Lincoln Peak / South as has already been discussed.

 

[Orca]

Yes, the locals feel quite comfortable in their ramshackle barn-like lodge. It reminds them of their homes minus the hay on the floor. They simply don't have the taste or appreciation for anything of refinement. Best the unwashed know their place, and we ought let them be.

 

[urungus]

But mountains are also running a business... More rock less Otten is much different than improving base facilities and trying to spread out crowds.

I’m sure Otten thought his plans for Castle Rock were an improvement. Sometimes things don’t need to be “improved”.

 

[Hawk]

Yes, the locals feel quite comfortable in their ramshackle barn-like lodge. It reminds them of their homes minus the hay on the floor. They simply don't have the taste or appreciation for anything of refinement. Best the unwashed know their place, and we ought let them be.

Hey my ramshackle home is quite nice and cozy even with the sap buckets collecting the leaks when it rains. I also appreciate refinement. My still does a fine job refining for my moonshine. Ha!

 

[tumbler]

But mountains are also running a business... More rock less Otten is much different than improving base facilities and trying to spread out crowds. News flash, you buy a ticket for Sugarbush and get to ski both sides. There’s not any restriction that in any way should prevent skiers from skiing where they want to ski.


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News flash on running a business. Not building a new lodge costs a lot less and has significantly higher ROI than building a new one when it is not needed. Breaking news- contrary to what you think, ski areas have a very difficult time making money. Reread Win's diplomatic post to you every time you start to post about how you know it all.

 

[Orca]

Hey my ramshackle home is quite nice and cozy even with the sap buckets collecting the leaks when it rains. I also appreciate refinement. My still does a fine job refining for my moonshine. Ha!

Did someone hear and animal braying?

 

[Orca]

This weekend looks a little awful. Wet lead up then freeze. Any thoughts?



(Clip from TOP OF WEST HILL STATION)

 

[cdskier]

This weekend looks a little awful. Wet lead up then freeze. Any thoughts?

Pretty accurate assessment based on current data...but then again I also thought last weekend might suck and was pleasantly surprised. So I'll be there even if it just means a few runs on firm groomers before calling it quits.

 

[djd66]

If you turn ME into LP 2.0, you may "spread people out", but you'll also lose some people that like ME for ME (and could also see the sales of the ME season passes decline as a result). So ultimately you have a net gain of 0, spent millions, and now have pissed off some locals. Doesn't sound like a particularly good decision for a business.

So just so I understand,... you think if they upgrade the Lodge it will piss off locals so much that they won't come to Sugarbush?

 

[KustyTheKlown]

i think thats a hyperbolic interpretation of his post. his point was that if sugarbush under alterra takes steps to significantly develop mount ellen (not just the base lodge upgrade, which is needed, but also things like putting lodging, restaurants, spas, etc there), then they risk losing a significant chunk of their business, who would say fuck this shit and go to mad river glen or bolton, because lots of us prefer the old fashioned experience.

 

[cdskier]

i think thats a hyperbolic interpretation of his post. his point was that if sugarbush under alterra takes steps to significantly develop mount ellen (not just the base lodge upgrade, which is needed, but also things like putting lodging, restaurants, spas, etc there), then they risk losing a significant chunk of their business, who would say fuck this shit and go to mad river glen or bolton, because lots of us prefer the old fashioned experience.

Thank you...yes...exactly this.

In the same post that djd quoted, I also said the following which should have made the point pretty clear that I'm not against ALL changes. They just need to be smaller in scale and maintain the character of ME to distinguish it from LP.

you can make some changes to improve things without going anywhere near to the degree of what was done at LP. Smaller, gradual upgrades would go over just fine. LP 2.0 would not.

 

[Slidebrook87]

i think thats a hyperbolic interpretation of his post. his point was that if sugarbush under alterra takes steps to significantly develop mount ellen (not just the base lodge upgrade, which is needed, but also things like putting lodging, restaurants, spas, etc there), then they risk losing a significant chunk of their business, who would say fuck this shit and go to mad river glen or bolton, because lots of us prefer the old fashioned experience.

True, but I don’t think anybody explicitly mentioned anything other than a new lodge and small courtyard. I think that was assumed from an “Ellen base upgrade”. To be clear I think that Ellen needs a new base lodge using design elements similar to the Lincoln base while still retaining features like the deck of the current lodge. A small courtyard and bar on weekends would also be ideal as a gathering place. Think of it as a slightly scaled down version of the Lincoln base minus Clay Brook, the Schoolhouse and the Farmhouse.


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[KustyTheKlown]

too much. make the existing lodge bigger. replace plastic folding tables and chairs with higher end furnishings. thats it. nothing else.

stay at lincoln peak with your fake silo.

 

[deadheadskier]

i think thats a hyperbolic interpretation of his post. his point was that if sugarbush under alterra takes steps to significantly develop mount ellen (not just the base lodge upgrade, which is needed, but also things like putting lodging, restaurants, spas, etc there), then they risk losing a significant chunk of their business, who would say fuck this shit and go to mad river glen or bolton, because lots of us prefer the old fashioned experience.

Bingo

I used to be the biggest Stowe homer you would ever meet. I detest what they've done to the place. I spent my winter vacation there this year with the family. We will be back slumming it at Wildcat and Black next season. I still do love the terrain at Stowe and will continue to visit occasionally , especially because of Epic. But overall I miss what it was. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube though.

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[deadheadskier]

True, but I don’t think anybody explicitly mentioned anything other than a new lodge and small courtyard. I think that was assumed from an “Ellen base upgrade”. To be clear I think that Ellen needs a new base lodge using design elements similar to the Lincoln base while still retaining features like the deck of the current lodge. A small courtyard and bar on weekends would also be ideal as a gathering place. Think of it as a slightly scaled down version of the Lincoln base minus Clay Brook, the Schoolhouse and the Farmhouse.


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The thing is though, most of the time ski areas look at such a thing and say, "Ya know what? Why are we upgrading the lodge with operations profit from the ski area when we can finance it with the proceeds from real estate sales?"

And then you get Claybrook 2.0

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[djd66]

i think thats a hyperbolic interpretation of his post. his point was that if sugarbush under alterra takes steps to significantly develop mount ellen (not just the base lodge upgrade, which is needed, but also things like putting lodging, restaurants, spas, etc there), then they risk losing a significant chunk of their business, who would say fuck this shit and go to mad river glen or bolton, because lots of us prefer the old fashioned experience.

Sorry, I don’t buy it.

Long lines at MRG
No snow making at MRG

As much as everyone loves MRG, the place is not sustainable in the long term.

 

[urungus]

Sorry, I don’t buy it.

Long lines at MRG
No snow making at MRG

As much as everyone loves MRG, the place is not sustainable in the long term.

MRG has snowmaking

 

[jaytrem]

You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube though.

Actually you can, and it's really not that hard to do.