• Welcome to AlpineZone, the largest online community of skiers and snowboarders in the Northeast!

    You may have to REGISTER before you can post. Registering is FREE, gets rid of the majority of advertisements, and lets you participate in giveaways and other AlpineZone events!

The "Sugarbush Thread"

Hawk

Active member
Joined
Nov 22, 2016
Messages
1,064
Points
38
Location
Mad River Valley / MA
That is already in the works. I doubt they would build it and then rip it down. It will have to be incorporated into any future design.
 

prsboogie

Active member
Joined
Aug 13, 2014
Messages
1,757
Points
38
Location
Swansea
Sb87 You mention unused ticket booth. It is actually used. I got my tickets there the last 2 times I skied Ellen


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone
Do you keep the RFID cards? You can just reload them if you buy ahead and go direct to the lifts

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

Slidebrook87

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
513
Points
18
Location
CT
That is already in the works. I doubt they would build it and then rip it down. It will have to be incorporated into any future design.

Win said that they anticipate a new Ellen lodge some time in the next 10 years. I do agree that it seems odd that they would do this small expansion matching the architecture of the old lodge only to tear it down.
 

Slidebrook87

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
513
Points
18
Location
CT
Sb87 You mention unused ticket booth. It is actually used. I got my tickets there the last 2 times I skied Ellen


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

Interesting. Whenever I have gone it looks abandoned. Maybe I just missed it.
 

mikec142

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Messages
434
Points
18
Slidebrook87,

I admire your enthusiasm. However, you neglected to answer my earlier question. How much more would you be willing to pay in order to have an updated ME lodge? Capital expenditure decisions are not made in a vacuum. They have to be analyzed, prioritized, and planned. There needs to be a cost/benefit analysis. Does the return on investment make sense now and in the future?
 

mikec142

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Messages
434
Points
18
Kinda bummed and looking for input. I mentioned earlier that I tore a calf muscle on Super Bowl Sunday and have been on the IR since then. I got the go ahead from the doctor to ski this weekend. I have one quad pack ticket left and 3 days left on my ski vermont four pack (one of which is good at SB). I'd love to ski at SB this weekend, and usually I'm fine with making the 5.5 hour drive, but if the conditions are bad and I'm just coming back from injury so probably sticking to groomers, I'm having a hard time justifying the drive. I don't want to eat the four tix I have left, but I also don't want to incur the expense and time away of the weekend if the conditions suck. Thoughts?
 

Slidebrook87

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
513
Points
18
Location
CT
Slidebrook87,

I admire your enthusiasm. However, you neglected to answer my earlier question. How much more would you be willing to pay in order to have an updated ME lodge? Capital expenditure decisions are not made in a vacuum. They have to be analyzed, prioritized, and planned. There needs to be a cost/benefit analysis. Does the return on investment make sense now and in the future?

Investments are not necessarily something that drives up a ticket price. A ticket price may increase slightly over time. Building a new base lodge won’t exactly make the ticket price shoot up a certain amount of money. This new base area would be something that I would expect to happen some time in the next 10 years. Right now the ROI might not be there, but within 5-10 years it might be a more feasible investment. It’s similar to how Win waited 5 years before doing the Lincoln base area development. With Alterra owning Sugarbush now, they can get better deals on certain things. They have more power to make deals with the state than Win did, but either way Vermont will never be an easy state to do business in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

KustyTheKlown

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
2,541
Points
63
Location
Brooklyn
kid plays a lot of roller coaster tycoon and fancies himself a ski resort CEO. cute (but really not at all, just annoying).
 

mikec142

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Messages
434
Points
18
Investments are not necessarily something that drives up a ticket price. A ticket price may increase slightly over time. Building a new base lodge won’t exactly make the ticket price shoot up a certain amount of money. This new base area would be something that I would expect to happen some time in the next 10 years. Right now the ROI might not be there, but within 5-10 years it might be a more feasible investment. It’s similar to how Win waited 5 years before doing the Lincoln base area development. With Alterra owning Sugarbush now, they can get better deals on certain things. They have more power to make deals with the state than Win did, but either way Vermont will never be an easy state to do business in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I understand your point, but I still think you're missing mine. It's a business. And while it would be awesome if SB had the ability to invest unlimited dollars and stay in business, that's not how it works. The goal of a business is to make money not lose it.

Any capital expenditure has to be paid for somehow. How would you propose that SB finances the renovation of the ME lodge?

Again, I admire your enthusiasm, but if we are to have a serious conversation about the future of Sugarbush, we should inject some sense of reality into the process.

Let me ask you this, what sort of return would SB get from a renovated lodge? To be clear, it needs to be functional, safe, clean, etc. so if anything needs to be done on that end, it has to happen. But renovating just to renovate and provide a nicer lodge experience isn't going to generate additional dollars. Maybe if they could build homes at the base or host weddings, etc. So, again, what's the return on investment?
 

slatham

Active member
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
1,713
Points
38
Location
LI/Bromley
Kinda bummed and looking for input. I mentioned earlier that I tore a calf muscle on Super Bowl Sunday and have been on the IR since then. I got the go ahead from the doctor to ski this weekend. I have one quad pack ticket left and 3 days left on my ski vermont four pack (one of which is good at SB). I'd love to ski at SB this weekend, and usually I'm fine with making the 5.5 hour drive, but if the conditions are bad and I'm just coming back from injury so probably sticking to groomers, I'm having a hard time justifying the drive. I don't want to eat the four tix I have left, but I also don't want to incur the expense and time away of the weekend if the conditions suck. Thoughts?

Doubtful there is any new snow to warrant the trip north. If anything, further south will be warmer/softer.
 

MorningWoods

New member
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
59
Points
0
I understand your point, but I still think you're missing mine. It's a business. And while it would be awesome if SB had the ability to invest unlimited dollars and stay in business, that's not how it works. The goal of a business is to make money not lose it.

Any capital expenditure has to be paid for somehow. How would you propose that SB finances the renovation of the ME lodge?

Again, I admire your enthusiasm, but if we are to have a serious conversation about the future of Sugarbush, we should inject some sense of reality into the process.

Let me ask you this, what sort of return would SB get from a renovated lodge? To be clear, it needs to be functional, safe, clean, etc. so if anything needs to be done on that end, it has to happen. But renovating just to renovate and provide a nicer lodge experience isn't going to generate additional dollars. Maybe if they could build homes at the base or host weddings, etc. So, again, what's the return on investment?

Weddings. More skier visits at north. Expanded GML. Maybe move MTB to north where they have more flexibility with trails etc. so summer income potential. I actually think you can more easily stick a ROI on this vs snowmaking. I’m not saying that snowmaking is not needed, just easier to measure a ROI.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Slidebrook87

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
513
Points
18
Location
CT
I understand your point, but I still think you're missing mine. It's a business. And while it would be awesome if SB had the ability to invest unlimited dollars and stay in business, that's not how it works. The goal of a business is to make money not lose it.

Any capital expenditure has to be paid for somehow. How would you propose that SB finances the renovation of the ME lodge?

Again, I admire your enthusiasm, but if we are to have a serious conversation about the future of Sugarbush, we should inject some sense of reality into the process.

Let me ask you this, what sort of return would SB get from a renovated lodge? To be clear, it needs to be functional, safe, clean, etc. so if anything needs to be done on that end, it has to happen. But renovating just to renovate and provide a nicer lodge experience isn't going to generate additional dollars. Maybe if they could build homes at the base or host weddings, etc. So, again, what's the return on investment?

I understand your point here but I would compare this to the Lincoln base area. Look how much of an improvement it has been for that side of the mountain. To be honest there’s a reason most people start their day over there. I can only predict that the new Ellen base would be just as popular with guests. At some point those base facilities need to be upgraded similarly to how Lincoln’s were upgraded. To answer your question, there really is no huge return, but it will help spread out crowds and generally improve that side of the mountain. Most “Sugarbush” skiers only stick to Lincoln. I don’t know the official numbers but when Slide Brook isn’t running I imagine that 85% of Lincoln skiers stay at Lincoln and when it is running I predict that around 65-70% of Lincoln skiers stay at Lincoln. Most Ellen skiers stay at Ellen as it is their goal to escape crowds on weekends. These are also local people that aren’t only able to ski for one day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Slidebrook87

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
513
Points
18
Location
CT
Another point I forgot to mention is that more Ikon skiers will mean even more traffic at the main base “Lincoln”. The Gate House Lodge can often become a mess so having an extra base for weekend traffic that doesn’t mean a small, crowded and dingy lodge would definelty help spread out crowds. I think you would be surprised as to what a new Ellen lodge and restored connection could do to improve skier flow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

MorningWoods

New member
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
59
Points
0
Weddings. More skier visits at north. Expanded GML. Maybe move MTB to north where they have more flexibility with trails etc. so summer income potential. I actually think you can more easily stick a ROI on this vs snowmaking. I’m not saying that snowmaking is not needed, just easier to measure a ROI.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And Alterra just announced their capex plans. The largest share is base area improvements. Why do you think that is?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Slidebrook87

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
513
Points
18
Location
CT
And Alterra just announced their capex plans. The largest share is base area improvements. Why do you think that is?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Still nothing about Sugarbush on those plans... I do think that since they’re prioritizing lodging will mean the same for Sugarbush.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

cdskier

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
3,946
Points
48
Location
NJ
I do think that since they’re prioritizing lodging will mean the same for Sugarbush.

Lodging in general - yes, as that was already stated by Win as one of the 3 main priorities (but not this year for reasons already stated). That still doesn't mean a new ME base lodge is anywhere near the top of that lodging list though...
 

deadheadskier

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
25,714
Points
48
Location
Southeast NH
Food for thought SlideBrook, I imagine a very high percentage Mt Ellen skiers absolutely do not want more Lincoln skiers to migrate over to Ellen. It's becoming increasingly difficult to find places to escape crowds at major Northeast ski areas. Mt Ellen is a rarity. I know I wouldn't want Mt Ellen to become a lot busier with the only benefit of having Lincoln be a little less crowded. I'd just assume Sugarbush keep Lincoln the cash cow capturing the tourist revenue and Mt Ellen stay almost exactly as is as a respite from the madness.

Down the road at Killington many skiers feel the same way about Pico and are decidedly against an Interconnect that would ruin the uncrowded experience Pico provides.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app
 
Top