The "Sugarbush Thread"

[Shredmonkey254]

Hawk - I get it,... part of me feels crappy about myself when I'm passing someone without motor assistance,... but that goes away pretty quick

If you are interested in trying it out (e mtn bikes) Sugarbush has a full fleet. That's actually where I got hooked and ended up buying 2 bikes at the end of the season from them at a steep discount. My wife (who is not a mtn biker) actually got into it now.

and to add to this, better yet, rent one from Doon at Green Mtn Bikes and go ride Tunnel Ridge. That there is e-bike territory! We also have two bikes... my wife got hers to help recover from a miserable knee replacement and I started riding her bike around the neighborhood and quickly realized I need one too. We now ride our bikes together, dirt roads and back country roads. We have a tandem (also for sale!) which was the only way the two of us could ever ride together. We do not touch that anymore, now we have our e-bikes and we both have a good time together, riding together.

 

[Shredmonkey254]

Really. What are they worth for a decent one? I'm just curious.

specialized has had them 25% off for awhile now. My $7500 bike has been $5600 for awhile now... still I don't regret buying early!

 

[tumbler]

Tandem

 

[Hastur]

ridden them all with zero issues with anyone for the past three years. I know others that ride them also...

where do you draw the line on e bike horsepower? genuinely curious. You seem to feel your amount is ok. What about someone with a much more powerful motor ? what the difference in your mind?

I stop people on trail networks near me (that I help maintain and steward) and explain that ebikes aren't allowed on trails. Most people know this, act sheepishly, and ultimately don't care - much like you. I think the main reason you aren't stopped is that unless you are a bit of a bike geek, most people couldn't tell you were on an ebike or not.

I applaud their use for your wife rehabbing her knee and for those not fit enough anymore to climb hills. And for couples riding together. it makes alot of sense. Just stay off the trails if they aren't allowed. It's part of being courteous and a responsible trail user.

Have you attempted joining any mad river riders group rides on your ebike? I'd be curious as to their response would be.

Don't hate ebikes - just hate irresponsible / illegal trail use. I don't maintain those trails up there or fight for access so I really don't have much skin in the Mad river valley ebike game either way.

 

[tumbler]

Why are ebikes banned on some trails? Do they tear them up more with spinning tires or that they go faster or people just don't like them?

 

[Shredmonkey254]

Why are ebikes banned on some trails? Do they tear them up more with spinning tires or that they go faster or people just don't like them?

I'm interested to hear this response... I ride my "motorized" bike with younger guns that race. I can't keep up with them when we ride together, except up longer hills and they are not terribly far behind... so people are not faster just because they maybe powered, they just might be FAST. And you can't spin tires on the powered bikes any easier than a regular bike, so that can't be it either. It's not the weight either, or else large people should be banned from trails too...

I have ridden with some Mad River Riders and have not gotten any crap from anyone. Some good natured ribbing - sure, it's to be expected - but no problems.

 

[djd66]

Really. What are they worth for a decent one? I'm just curious.

I am going off memory,... I think they retail for about $5-6K I think I paid $3k for each. They also deducted the rental cost off of the sale price.

 

[djd66]

I'm interested to hear this response... I ride my "motorized" bike with younger guns that race. I can't keep up with them when we ride together, except up longer hills and they are not terribly far behind... so people are not faster just because they maybe powered, they just might be FAST. And you can't spin tires on the powered bikes any easier than a regular bike, so that can't be it either. It's not the weight either, or else large people should be banned from trails too...

I have ridden with some Mad River Riders and have not gotten any crap from anyone. Some good natured ribbing - sure, it's to be expected - but no problems.

I am very curious to hear the response too. I don't understand how my bike is any rougher on trails than a nonmotorized bike.

 

[Shredmonkey254]

where do you draw the line on e bike horsepower? genuinely curious. You seem to feel your amount is ok. What about someone with a much more powerful motor ? what the difference in your mind?

In regards to your question, I have never thought about these things in terms of horsepower. If someone has a faster one then me, I happily let them by just like anyone else that wants to pass me as I try to never hinder anyone on the trail. The beauty of these things is that they are not high powered motorcycles that rip up trails. Those I disagree with. You actually have to pedal an e-bike and it rides just like a regular bicycle.

Just like skiing, there is always somebody faster/better than you... it's not the skis, it's the skier!

 

[Smellytele]

Here is NH's rules...

Are E-Bikes Allowed on New Hampshire Trails? (Laws, Maps and more) | DIY Mountain Bike

www.diymountainbike.com

 

[SkiingInABlueDream]

One argument I've read and which I somewhat sympathize with is that it will be an easy software and hardware hack to convert an ebike, as currently built, into essentially an electric throttle bike.

I'm not opposed to current ebikes, other than recognizing that as soon as I experience one there's a decent chance that it will spoil regular mtn biking for me. I've watched ppl on ebikes sail past me pedalling up Highland and it looks like fun.

 

[dustyroads]

I'm curious, There are a lot of non-supported or unofficial MTB trails in the Valley. Are e-MTBs anymore illegal than a standard MTB on those trails? Are there signs or posts on the Mad River Rider trails saying e-bikes are not allowed?

 

[Hawk]

There are no e-bike restrictions on trails that I know of or ever heard of. e-bikes electric motors do no have that much torque so I wouldn't think they would rip up trails any worse than a stong mountain biker in first gear powering up a steep. Let's not go way overboard with some Nancy knee-jerk reation to ebikes. As long as people are respectful to others, I do not see any issues with them. I just am not ready to go that route.

 

[Hawk]

So I did some research. In Vermont, in 2021 they passed legislation that basically says that the local athorities that own and maintain the trail network can regulate use. Here is a snip.....

• The State of Vermont recently (2021) passed legislation declaring that “electric bicycles shall be governed as bicycles under Vermont law, and operators of electric bicycles shall be subject to all of the rights and duties applicable to bicyclists under Vermont law and that “an electric bicycle may be ridden in places where bicycles are allowed, including highways, bicycle lanes, and bicycle or multi-use paths.” This same legislation also stated, however, that these regulations do not apply to “a trail that is specifically designated as non-motorized and that has a natural surface tread … A municipality, local authority, or State agency having jurisdiction over a trail described in this subdivision may regulate the use of an electric bicycle on that trail.”

That knd of sucks because it opens this up to wide varying opinions that will always clash. I guess it is not my fight.

 

[Newpylong]

Similar to giving the responsibility to municipalities here in NH to govern ATV use on Class 6 roads. They do far less damage than a Jeep on 40" tires, but they are not allowed by default.

 

[Smellytele]

Similar to giving the responsibility to municipalities here in NH to govern ATV use on Class 6 roads. They do far less damage than a Jeep on 40" tires, but they are not allowed by default.

Don’t get me going on atv’s. Some are larger than road vehicles. Our town allows them on some roads. They have no turn signals, take up a whole lane and while most follow the 20 mph rules a lot do not.

 

[Newpylong]

So you pay zero registration on a bike but get carte blanche on the roads, also without turn signals? Most bikers heed road rules, but a lot do not.

ATVs pay yearly registration and have to follow NH state law when operating on public rights of way. Most of those rights of way are short connectors to get from one trail to another and rated at 10 MPH to keep dust down. Paved is usually 20 mph unless noted. There is usually heavy club and local PD enforcement on these stretches on weekends when ATV traffic is heaviest.

Why you and not me?

 

[Smellytele]

Motorized vs non motorized. 200 lbs vs 1k or more. 2 ft wide vs 4’. Speed potential of 25 vs 50.

 

[Razor]

E-bikes are a God send to those of us in our 70s who still have the ability and desire to get out there. I've ridden an e-bike on the road and rail trails for the past 2 years. So has my wife. Previously I rode a Bianchi road bike. Normally I use the power assist maybe 1/4 of the time. My formerly 10-15 mile rides are now 15-25. Once you've had the experience of riding one, you'll understand the attraction. I'm guessing in a few more years, there'll be more e-bikes than regular ones. We rented electric mountain bikes at Sunday River a few years ago. Rode the Bethel Village trails. It was a blast, and I can see the attraction. Like anything else, responsible people won't cause any problems. The yahoos, well that's another story.

 

[bigbob]

So you pay zero registration on a bike but get carte blanche on the roads, also without turn signals? Most bikers heed road rules, but a lot do not.

ATVs pay yearly registration and have to follow NH state law when operating on public rights of way. Most of those rights of way are short connectors to get from one trail to another and rated at 10 MPH to keep dust down. Paved is usually 20 mph unless noted. There is usually heavy club and local PD enforcement on these stretches on weekends when ATV traffic is heaviest.

Why you and not me?

Register your S x S in Montana via an LLC, then you can ride the roads. It will be reclassified as a Quadracycle. Need DOT tires, turn signals and a horn. ATv's and sleds pay registration fees which supports NH Bureau of trails, walkers and bikes pay zero and get to use the trails. I am currently working adjacent to a rail trail, very busy but no one pays a dime excapt the sledders in the winter who also help maintain the trail as volenteers and pay for plowing for the parking area. NH needs to have a trail pass payment. User fundined state, I don't want to hear But I pay taxes bullshit!