The "Sugarbush Thread"

[kingslug]

Weather isn't the best for it just yet...

 

[thetrailboss]

The "why aren't they making snow yet?" has been a recurrent issue for the better part of the last 15 years or so. Those of us who skied there prior to 2008 or so remember that Sugarbush often would make a push to open early (or in line with other areas trying to open early). I imagine that with increasing costs (in the thousands per hour to make snow), the higher risk of losing that snow due to a warm spell, the limited returns from the few people buying day tickets, and other considerations have led management to determine that Sugarbush is not in the race to open early anymore. It is what it is. Of course when I was a passholder I of course would want them to open ASAP. In many ways now, Sugarbush folks are very lucky because with IKON they can go ski Killington tomorrow and Sunday River in a few days.

 

[thetrailboss]

Another thought: with new ownership, recent and future investment at Mount Ellen, and a lot of IKON passholders, it remains to be seen if Alterra will revive Mount Ellen as the early-season area once again.

 

[SteezyRob]

so any word on which area they're trying to open up first? i enjoyed gatehouse early season.

 

[Hawk]

The only place that people have seen guns set up on is Gatehouse. I would say that is a good indicator.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Another thought: with new ownership, recent and future investment at Mount Ellen, and a lot of IKON passholders, it remains to be seen if Alterra will revive Mount Ellen as the early-season area once again.

Can you elaborate on that a little further? Is the hypothesis that in a world where concentrating activity at LP base isn't as important to Alterra as it was to the formerly independent ownership, perhaps Alterra takes a "portfolio approach" by designating North as the early/late season mountain its geography and topography would indicate it's well suited for?

 

[WWF-VT]

Another thought: with new ownership, recent and future investment at Mount Ellen, and a lot of IKON passholders, it remains to be seen if Alterra will revive Mount Ellen as the early-season area once again.

That's never going to happen

 

[MadPadraic]

I imagine that with increasing costs (in the thousands per hour to make snow), the higher risk of losing that snow due to a warm spell, the limited returns from the few people buying day tickets, and other considerations have led management to determine that Sugarbush is not in the race to open early anymore.

I really hope they aren't basing it on projected single day ticket sales. Presumably it is some combination of revenue generated on the day (not just tickets) + some guesstimate on the impact of IKON pass sales for NEXT season. But anyway, I'm looking forward to when they do open, and hope that they are able to expand terrain quickly.

 

[thetrailboss]

Can you elaborate on that a little further? Is the hypothesis that in a world where concentrating activity at LP base isn't as important to Alterra as it was to the formerly independent ownership, perhaps Alterra takes a "portfolio approach" by designating North as the early/late season mountain its geography and topography would indicate it's well suited for?

That's never going to happen

My question was only for discussion purposes as that is what AZ is about.

TW, sure. The thinking perhaps is shiny new NRX coming soon, big investments in snowmaking at Ellen, lots of IKON passholders in NE and none of the Alterra-owned resorts in the early season game, maybe consideration is given in having Ellen serve as that Alterra early offering instead of Alterra paying Boyne and POWDR for IKON redemptions. Again, just for conversation.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

My question was only for discussion purposes as that is what AZ is about.

TW, sure. The thinking perhaps is shiny new NRX coming soon, big investments in snowmaking at Ellen, lots of IKON passholders in NE and none of the Alterra-owned resorts in the early season game, maybe consideration is given in having Ellen serve as that Alterra early offering instead of Alterra paying Boyne and POWDR for IKON redemptions. Again, just for conversation.

I think it's worth discussing/speculating. Certainly moreso than it was in the last 10+ yrs of Win's ownership where it was a settled issue. Suspect they have some more runway to cover with the LP Village build-out before they can feel good about reducing the season length there. Suspect they'd also want to get over the hump on any of the more transformational snowmaking investments that have been mooted at one time or another (e.g. connecting LP/ME systems for maximum flexibility/firepower when needed) before they take that step as well. At a minimum, it's a (distant) possibility now under Alterra vs. Win.

 

[Hawk]

John Hammond ran operations when Win was in charge. He now is in charge of everything. I don't see any changes coming unless there is quantum shift in phylosophies.

 

[kingslug]

I don't think it would matter to their bottom line if they opened a week or 2 later...than we want.

 

[cdskier]

John Hammond ran operations when Win was in charge. He now is in charge of everything. I don't see any changes coming unless there is quantum shift in phylosophies.

Yea...there's absolutely nothing they've done or plan to do that has me thinking that shifting early season to ME is even a possibility. And personally I'm just fine with early season being at LP. Most of the ME snowmaking improvements have been to just get things back to the way they should be or were. They still don't have the capacity that LP does (and LP is still under-powered).

 

[Los]

so any word on which area they're trying to open up first? i enjoyed gatehouse early season.

That is definitely the plan. Gatehouse first again.

 

[slatham]

The evolution is telling.

Mt Ellen, Rim Run, Elbow and FIS with the Turkey Tumble.

Then Lincoln, with Jester, Downspout and Organgrinder.

Now Gatehouse.

Hardcore earlier season skiers is not what they are targeting.

 

[benski]

Alterra also starts with beginner terrain at Winter Park. I don't think they made snow on an expert trail for a while last season.

 

[MadPadraic]

I don't have any objection to them starting with Gatehouse. In fact, on the first day of the season shorter runs are fine as my feet adjust to the strain that I put on them. However, my recollection of last year is that it was just Gatehouse (and not Sleeper or Waterfall either) for quite a while, and they took a very long time to expand terrain. I vaguely recall that there was some issue or other with the snowmaking pond? Anyway, this is the flagship Eastern mountain on the most expensive national pass, and I hope that we see a whole lot open quickly.

 

[Hawk]

Ha Ha Ha. I wouldn't hold your breath. They are what they are. They have never been quick to expand unless Mother nature kicks in. How long have you be skiing here Madpadraic?

 

[Blurski]

Just a FB post with Guns going, stated testing out the guns. Looked like it was on the Race Hill at North to me.

 

[cdskier]

Just a FB post with Guns going, stated testing out the guns. Looked like it was on the Race Hill at North to me.

Yea...pretty sure that was Inverness in that video. Not many left loading quad chairs at Sugarbush with a wide trail to the right like that. It did take me a few minutes to realize where that video was shot.