The "Sugarbush Thread"

[nhskier1969]

Why open beginner terrain first? I would assume early season skiers would be more advanced.

 

[pinnoke]

Why open beginner terrain first? I would assume early season skiers would be more advanced.

Not necessarily true. My Thanksgiving holiday-visiting son and two young grandkids had a wonderful time today; their first day on skis for the season. Gate House is 'plenty' for these kids; and I've just been enjoying being back on snow for my 4th day, today. Terrain expansion will come, and I'll/we'll enjoy that as well. Patience will be rewarded, I'm sure (I also have that Hawk-inspired positive attitude).

 

[SteezyRob]

Why open beginner terrain first? I would assume early season skiers would be more advanced.

nope. The trail is swarming with beginners, aka people who should not be there.

 

[HowieT2]

Why open beginner terrain first? I would assume early season skiers would be more advanced.

That’s a good question, but it seems that this approach is not unique to sb. My son is out in Colorado and they’re doing the same thing at winter park and copper. I wonder if the strategy is to get beginner terrain open first, or they’re trying to avoid not having beginner terrain for the holidays should the weather turn unfavorable if they wait till after the more advanced terrain is done.

 

[chuckstah]

(most) everyone can ski beginner terrain. Most skiers are beginner and intermediate. Not what those here want, but it's what the vast majority of skier's want. Makes perfect sense for the mountains. Lots of shit show stories this weekend with new skiers walking down Great Northern at K, easy blue that was green in the not too distant past.

 

[thetrailboss]

(most) everyone can ski beginner terrain. Most skiers are beginner and intermediate. Not what those here want, but it's what the vast majority of skier's want. Makes perfect sense for the mountains. Lots of shit show stories this weekend with new skiers walking down Great Northern at K, easy blue that was green in the not too distant past.

This. They are trying to satisfy the anticipated market demand. And with the rise of EPIC and IKON there are a lot more skiers and riders who are likely intermediates and not rabid experts like us (or so I think)

 

[djd66]

Personally, I was never a fan of early season skiing on 1 trail. Now that the 1 trail is Pushover, sitting out the first few weeks has sealed the deal. Driving 3+ hours for that? ,…. No f-Ing way.

 

[Hawk]

I skied for about 3 hours yesterday, went to the castlerock and saw many people that I have not seen since last may. The skiing was fine. Skiing the sugar on the skier left was fun. What was more fun was the conversation and laughs with many of my friends. Again the community, the thing that most transient skiers wouldn't understand. djd66 you spend enough time up here. You don't miss your ski friends?

 

[skiur]

(most) everyone can ski beginner terrain. Most skiers are beginner and intermediate. Not what those here want, but it's what the vast majority of skier's want. Makes perfect sense for the mountains. Lots of shit show stories this weekend with new skiers walking down Great Northern at K, easy blue that was green in the not too distant past.

Nothing easy about great northern on crowded days, it's the most likely trail that you will get hurt on.

 

[Treeskier]

Snow Making Plan is not working

As I have done for the last 30+ years, arriving to the MT on Friday afternoon of Thanksgiving weekend, I found this year an empty resort. No lift line and only a few very icy trails. When I went into the Castlerock Pub after skiing, there were maybe 12 patrons. Where in years past the place would have been bustling with skiers and patrons. I then went to both Lawsons and the Hydeaway only to find them 25% occupied. I ask myself why is this? Why are we not top to bottom or at least offering advanced to expert terrain/trails? We have had enough cold. Stowe and even Bolton are top to bottom.

The ”new” snow-making plan is not working. To save labor cost and energy the MT has gone to the very efficient snow guns. While they are quiet and can produce nice snow. They do not produce as much snow per hour and they are heavy and cumbersome to move around. They do not work well in marginal temperatures. So, the new policy is to leave them in the same place for days and days. Build up a winter’s worth of snowmaking depth and then hope not to have to come back to that terrine again. Which is probably the most cost-efficient procedure but as proven this first holiday weekend. Did not spread out enough snow to really open this weekend.

Sugarbush patrons are made up of 2 groups. The advanced/experts who have come here for the challenging terrain often out growing the more flat less challenging feeder hills closer to their homes. And families, with less advanced skiers. The first group bring lots of money and people to the resort and town. This advanced core group looks to have Heaven’s Gate area open (or top of MT Ellen), as it has been many years in the past. They even would prefer to have some snow gun on, on some of the open terrine. Which provides soft turn-able snow and “mounds” to play on. None of which is offered this weekend.

I know at my ski house of 10 members of which I am the only one up. 5 others said it was not worth coming with such limited terrain. That just cost the valley at least $500.00 to $1000.00 in revenue. I feel sorry for the local businesses trying to stay afloat when the valley is so empty.

In closing, I can only hope Sugarbush will re-evaluate its snow-making plan. Return the fun to early-season skiing. Which should include being more nimbly and moving around to cover more terrain with less depth, speedily. Even if it means employing more snowmakers and using the less energy-efficient snow guns but very light, easily moveable older guns and renting additional compressors to facilitate more uphill air/pressure. Last, as the season progresses, top off or resurface when needed with lighter “consumer snow” not just blow base snow (wet thick, needs to drain before opening), facilitating a more consumer-friendly, fun, product and experience.

Sincerely, long-time concerned, passionate Sugarbush skier and pass holder,

Treeskier

 

[hovercraft]

The early snowmaking policy this year is an embarrassment. People can try and defend it all they want but it’s not reality. Glad I have both passes as Stowe has been a pleasure so far…..

 

[IceEidolon]

What you're missing is the low energy guns let you cover three to six times as much acreage with the same pumphouse. Your per hydrant flow is about 70% with a low E gun versus an old school Ratnik (unless we're talking the bad old days with a gun and a half per compressor). All in all, figure from the terrain you have right now, cut about half that acreage and that's what you'd have with old school snowmaking, in the best case scenario. Even with your thin-to-win plan.

You don't actually want to go back.

 

[cdskier]

As long as they're using the max water capacity, then low E isn't the reason for this new GH first idea. I think the problem is just more the plan and system itself. They seem to be pretty adamant that they no longer want to open with HG only and use downloading. And they don't seem to have confidence in the system to make enough snow on the Super Bravo or Valley House side down low to "risk" trying to open that first vs GH. The route on GH needs less snow so is the "safer" bet to open quicker down low unless you see a long enough cold snap at lower elevations. Still don't agree with that plan (although if they had tried SB/VH first and failed to open on time...people would be complaining about that as well). I don't even agree with making snow on Murphy's or Birdland this early. Both of those trails ski great on natural snow in early season before they cover them with snow-making. Although I suppose covering at least one of them makes sense unfortunately now if you want to focus on opening up HGT early and not having to require people to loop all the way along VHT to HGT. But yes, this is now being done at the expense of other routes that used to take priority early in the season.

 

[Los]

nope. The trail is swarming with beginners, aka people who should not be there.

Yep - this is true. My older kids were not happy….

 

[WinS]

I saw Colin, Sugarbush’s mountain manager, this morning. By Tuesday or Wednesday the following should be open. Upper Jester, Allyn’s Traverse, Valley Traverse, new Heaven’s Gate Traverse all the way to HG, Murphy’s and Birdland to the HG Traverse, Lower Downspout, Lower Jester, Coffee Run. After that I suspect they will look at finishing Upper Orangrinder and maybe some refresh over at GH. Snowball And Spring Fling is a lot of acreage and needs at least 72 hours in good temps To get open. It is also always nice to get the Welcome Mat open as soon as possible for beginner lessons.

 

[Newpylong]

Snow Making Plan is not working

As I have done for the last 30+ years, arriving to the MT on Friday afternoon of Thanksgiving weekend, I found this year an empty resort. No lift line and only a few very icy trails. When I went into the Castlerock Pub after skiing, there were maybe 12 patrons. Where in years past the place would have been bustling with skiers and patrons. I then went to both Lawsons and the Hydeaway only to find them 25% occupied. I ask myself why is this? Why are we not top to bottom or at least offering advanced to expert terrain/trails? We have had enough cold. Stowe and even Bolton are top to bottom.

The ”new” snow-making plan is not working. To save labor cost and energy the MT has gone to the very efficient snow guns. While they are quiet and can produce nice snow. They do not produce as much snow per hour and they are heavy and cumbersome to move around. They do not work well in marginal temperatures. So, the new policy is to leave them in the same place for days and days. Build up a winter’s worth of snowmaking depth and then hope not to have to come back to that terrine again. Which is probably the most cost-efficient procedure but as proven this first holiday weekend. Did not spread out enough snow to really open this weekend.

Sugarbush patrons are made up of 2 groups. The advanced/experts who have come here for the challenging terrain often out growing the more flat less challenging feeder hills closer to their homes. And families, with less advanced skiers. The first group bring lots of money and people to the resort and town. This advanced core group looks to have Heaven’s Gate area open (or top of MT Ellen), as it has been many years in the past. They even would prefer to have some snow gun on, on some of the open terrine. Which provides soft turn-able snow and “mounds” to play on. None of which is offered this weekend.

I know at my ski house of 10 members of which I am the only one up. 5 others said it was not worth coming with such limited terrain. That just cost the valley at least $500.00 to $1000.00 in revenue. I feel sorry for the local businesses trying to stay afloat when the valley is so empty.

In closing, I can only hope Sugarbush will re-evaluate its snow-making plan. Return the fun to early-season skiing. Which should include being more nimbly and moving around to cover more terrain with less depth, speedily. Even if it means employing more snowmakers and using the less energy-efficient snow guns but very light, easily moveable older guns and renting additional compressors to facilitate more uphill air/pressure. Last, as the season progresses, top off or resurface when needed with lighter “consumer snow” not just blow base snow (wet thick, needs to drain before opening), facilitating a more consumer-friendly, fun, product and experience.

Sincerely, long-time concerned, passionate Sugarbush skier and pass holder,

Treeskier

These issues have nothing to do with the equipment being utilized (that every resort uses now with the exception of Killington) but how and where they are being utilized.

 

[doublediamond]

Even Killington pulled out Impulses on sleds this year for Rime.

 

[Newpylong]

Not Impulses but custom order 4 nuc Phazers. But yeah, even they are slowly figuring out where they can be utilized to save 300 CFM per gun.

 

[Getskied]

I saw Colin, Sugarbush’s mountain manager, this morning. By Tuesday or Wednesday the following should be open. Upper Jester, Allyn’s Traverse, Valley Traverse, new Heaven’s Gate Traverse all the way to HG, Murphy’s and Birdland to the HG Traverse, Lower Downspout, Lower Jester, Coffee Run. After that I suspect they will look at finishing Upper Orangrinder and maybe some refresh over at GH. Snowball And Spring Fling is a lot of acreage and needs at least 72 hours in good temps To get open. It is also always nice to get the Welcome Mat open as soon as possible for beginner lessons.

That’s a big terrain rollout, although a bit of a shame none of it was ready for Thanksgiving weekend.

To correct a previous poster, Bolton is not TTB currently but when you’re comparing anyone’s snowmaking to Bolton‘s you’ve already lost.

I‘m sure there is a logical reason or reasons for this, but if getting the main lifts at Lincoln Peak open each year is going to take a massive, multi week buildout then why not hit Hot Shot over at GH early as well, even if it’s just with a thin veneer? That’s about as short a trail as you can ask for which would still add variety and an additional route down GH.

Anyways, credit where credit is due - putting the early season terrain park over at Mt Ellen instead of taking up valuable real estate right off a beginner trail is such an improvement from the recent past.

 

[MadPadraic]

nope. The trail is swarming with beginners, aka people who should not be there.

This. They are trying to satisfy the anticipated market demand. And with the rise of EPIC and IKON there are a lot more skiers and riders who are likely intermediates and not rabid experts like us (or so I think)

Was out Friday afternoon (one and done) and then most of Saturday morning. Nothing but Jerrys on the hill. I did see, perhaps, one beginner.