The "Sugarbush Thread"

[MadPadraic]

They do not tell sugarbush what to do in regards to an operations plan. I'm sure it is all simple to you but it isn't.

We are all friends here who enjoy the same hobby. No need to be nasty.

 

[SteezyRob]

how have the crowds been? not tryna wait in line for pushover. maybe ill to mrg both days.

 

[cdskier]

I don't blame the snow making team. I blame management and I think this is a budget issue. I imagine Altera set the budgets for all the Ski Resorts. Maybe Altera gave a larger budget to Stratton this year. New Yorkers spend more money than locals.

What perceived budget issue is this? No amount of OpEx budget this year will fix the current water challenges that are limiting snowmaking capacity at Sugarbush.

 

[MadPadraic]

how have the crowds been? not tryna wait in line for pushover. maybe ill to mrg both days.

Not bad at all yesterday.

 

[Cheetah440]

They don't get an unlimited budget... You seem to not understand at all how budgeting works in corporations if you think they can just suddenly increase OpEx spending several weeks ahead of the scheduled plan to run an entire second base area to appease a handful of diehards. And technically winter starts December 21st... We're not even a full week into December. This is early season by any normal measurement.

I think the point that has been suggested numerous times is it’s a flawed plan. Wachusett has 5 lifts open Peak has 4 lifts open btw. And it’s not even winter!!!

 

[Hawk]

We are all friends here who enjoy the same hobby. No need to be nasty.

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off that way. my bad

 

[ducky]

I never usually give enrorsements but there's a new bagel store in town owned by local and maybe 21yo, Brooke Downing, B&B Bagels. Brooke is Buny's daughter (Buny and her husband Chris Downing are the Harwood ski team coaches and former MRG team coaches), and she is also Rick McAlister's (Ski Sharp and Stokli dealer) granddaughter.

Her bagels and breakfasts are delicious. B&B is at 5197 Main St, Waitsfield, VT 05673.

Go Brooke!!

 

[Hawk]

Ducky, is that in the Irasville common Building across from the Shaws entrance? I will have to check it out. I know of the Downings and Rick McAlister.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

That ship sailed...they're not moving early/late ops back to ME over LP. And they're not going to suddenly close GH/LP and switch everything over to ME tomorrow instead.

I agree GH is a crappy first offering...which is exactly why I don't waste my time going up there now. (Re-read any of my old posts from previous years and you'll see I've always been against the GH first idea). I agree they should have had better planning knowing HG was being replaced and they likely had no upper mountain option at LP if they didn't have temps down low. But those are decisions that would have needed to happen weeks ago. Now it is too late. People here are saying they should pivot to open ME "now" which is entirely unrealistic.

Yes. Exactly my point. They should have had the plan in place to pivot THIS YEAR ONLY if long range forecasts weren't looking promising, due to the unique circumstances of not being able to open upper mtn at LP.

FTR, it wouldn't be 2 "extra" lifts. You would pivot to ME instead of LP, running GMX and Summit. The incremental staff/costs is for one fixed grip lift (Summit) as GHX and GMX cancel each other out. Snowmaking and other mtn staff wouldn't need to change in aggregate - just a slight, temporary reapportionment to support the pivot. Horse is out of the barn at this point, but this goes back to lack of planning, foresight and imagination.

 

[cdskier]

Yes. Exactly my point. They should have had the plan in place to pivot THIS YEAR ONLY if long range forecasts weren't looking promising, due to the unique circumstances of not being able to open upper mtn at LP.

FTR, it wouldn't be 2 "extra" lifts. You would pivot to ME instead of LP, running GMX and Summit. The incremental staff/costs is for one fixed grip lift (Summit) as GHX and GMX cancel each other out. Snowmaking and other mtn staff wouldn't need to change in aggregate - just a slight, temporary reapportionment to support the pivot. Horse is out of the barn at this point, but this goes back to lack of planning, foresight and imagination.

The comment about 2 "extra" lifts is to open ME "now" as some people have suggested. I agree it wouldn't be a substantial overall staffing change if the plan from day 1 had been to open ME first this year.

Without being in the room, hard to know what the thought process was. At the time they made the plans, they could have thought "HG will be ready early enough and we only need xx number of hours to open terrain down low so statistically speaking we get those temps 99% of the time so our normal plan with GH -> VH -> HG should be fine". I wasn't following the weather forecasts that closely, so I don't know exactly at what point it would have been clear that chances of opening lower mountain terrain only on time at LP was in jeopardy.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

It really doesn't require in depth knowledge of these factors to know that opening an entire second mountain at this point in the season to make a handful of diehards happy isn't going to move the needle on Ikon sales one way or the other.

We really should nip this strawman in the bud. I don't think anyone is suggesting that SB should, right now, decide to pivot to ME while also trying to operate down low at LP. No. That would be self-evidently idiotic.

This is about lack of foresight that a narrowed margin this year only could result in an embarrassing scenario where SB opens later than several resorts in (checks notes) Massachusetts. As we discuss annually this time of year, SB has never been about opening first or being the snowmaking capital of ...anywhere. I think we all need to accept that reality. I also don't generally believe in conspiracy theories about Alterra mgmt or whomever trying to back seat drive this issue. More likely, and frankly a much more common issue in any organization of more than 2 people, is group think and a failure of imagination - to question "givens".

It's low-key shocking they didn't seriously contemplate a plan to start up high at ME this year given zero margin for error on the down low plan (which was always stupid to begin with - beginners don't ski until Christmas).

 

[Tin Woodsman]

The comment about 2 "extra" lifts is to open ME "now" as some people have suggested. I agree it wouldn't be a substantial overall staffing change if the plan from day 1 had been to open ME first this year.

Without being in the room, hard to know what the thought process was. At the time they made the plans, they could have thought "HG will be ready early enough and we only need xx number of hours to open terrain down low so statistically speaking we get those temps 99% of the time so our normal plan with GH -> VH -> HG should be fine". I wasn't following the weather forecasts that closely, so I don't know exactly at what point it would have been clear that chances of opening lower mountain terrain only on time at LP was in jeopardy.

I think that's totally fair speculation re: their thought process. They are smart people who are experienced and get paid to do a job they know well. They surely ran the numbers in some sort of way to assess this issue. As someone who follows the weather pretty closely, yes you can't tell specifics a week or two out, but you generally know if it's going to be warmer or colder. I will continue to believe that if they had had a plan in place to pivot to an ME opening if temps weren't looking promising, they could have.

 

[cdskier]

We really should nip this strawman in the bud. I don't think anyone is suggesting that SB should, right now, decide to pivot to ME while also trying to operate down low at LP. No. That would be self-evidently idiotic.

This was very much my interpretation of the suggestion from someone several pages back and had agreement from at least 1 other person: "Shame though that they don’t treat ME like MRG, just open it all up let it rip. Snow is precious and there’s plenty on ME for safe skiing."

This is about lack of foresight that a narrowed margin this year only could result in an embarrassing scenario where SB opens later than several resorts in (checks notes) Massachusetts. As we discuss annually this time of year, SB has never been about opening first or being the snowmaking capital of ...anywhere. I think we all need to accept that reality. I also don't generally believe in conspiracy theories about Alterra mgmt or whomever trying to back seat drive this issue. More likely, and frankly a much more common issue in any organization of more than 2 people, is group think and a failure of imagination - to question "givens".

It's low-key shocking they didn't seriously contemplate a plan to start up high at ME this year given zero margin for error on the down low plan (which was always stupid to begin with - beginners don't ski until Christmas).

Agree with everything else that you're saying.

 

[Hawk]

I think this has been sufficiently beaten up. Bad Sugarbush. Go to your room. LOL

 

[doublediamond]

They've known all summer and fall just how little water they had. Perhaps they didn't think they had enough to make snow up high without running out for a bit.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

This was very much my interpretation of the suggestion from someone several pages back and had agreement from at least 1 other person: "Shame though that they don’t treat ME like MRG, just open it all up let it rip. Snow is precious and there’s plenty on ME for safe skiing."

Well that's silly then. That ship has long sailed.

 

[Lotso]

On a good note, the forecast for next week seems to be trending a bit colder and less liquid up high. Will still be wet in the valley.

Fingers crossed

 

[Keelhauled]

Is GMVS on Ellen right now? If so it seems like the question of "should they have pivoted to opening from the Summit lift" is unanswerable by anyone who doesn't know exactly what the rental contract says and when it was signed.

 

[Lotso]

Is GMVS on Ellen right now? If so it seems like the question of "should they have pivoted to opening from the Summit lift" is unanswerable by anyone who doesn't know exactly what the rental contract says and when it was signed.

I don't know the details, but they pay for the hours they use it, which is usually 4 hours or so, on top of the Ikon passes each kid buys. Then it shuts down. They are off Elbow after today and will be on Inverness, which they also have paid extra for, lift and snow, plus patrol, for the hours they are on it each day, starting tomorrow, I think. No lodge until the moountain opens on the 20th.

FIS Races on Inverness Mon/Tuesday. 100-140 racers plus coaches from all over the NE, spending money in the Valley, and they have to buy a ticket for the race (that SB gets the money from) if they don't have a pass. Don't know if lodge will be open, but they'd make some $ on F&B if they did...

 

[pinnoke]

I never usually give enrorsements but there's a new bagel store in town owned by local and maybe 21yo, Brooke Downing, B&B Bagels. Brooke is Buny's daughter (Buny and her husband Chris Downing are the Harwood ski team coaches and former MRG team coaches), and she is also Rick McAlister's (Ski Sharp and Stokli dealer) granddaughter.

Her bagels and breakfasts are delicious. B&B is at 5197 Main St, Waitsfield, VT 05673.

Go Brooke!!

I stopped for a bagel this afternoon on my drive home. Indeed, delicious; with not-your-typical cream cheese...this was super smooth, creamy and tasty. The fresh bagel (made in-house) was served warm and nicely wrapped. I don't advise taking your first bite while driving! Bagels are available Friday-Sunday (but only until 1pm, I believe). There's a second component to the business...a Mad River Donut shop...also made in-house. They look great! But, I'm hoping the new ski season will jump-start some weight reduction! First impression is that everything is pricey. But, the quality is worth it in my once-upon-a-time New Yorker opinion...and I will surely stop in again!