The "Sugarbush Thread"

[bumpcrasher]

NorthRidge had 2 days (Dec. 25 & Jan. 3) out of 18 days where it has not gone on mechanical hold for all or most of the day.
Sunshine Quad has been broken all season.
SlideBrook looks useless with chairs still lying all around the base of it.
Out of 14 days at Mt. Ellen, GMX has experienced a significant mechanical issue every single day.
Unfortunately, this year is not that abnormal and entirely predictable.

 

[Mak]

I could have sworn I heard JH say at the fall Community Day gathering that they spend a lot of time and money upgrading NR so that it wouldn't be breaking down and stopping like it has in the past.

 

[cdskier]

I could have sworn I heard JH say at the fall Community Day gathering that they spend a lot of time and money upgrading NR so that it wouldn't be breaking down and stopping like it has in the past.

 

[Lotso]

Well, at least they took the "1 min. ride" off the HG icon on the report.

 

[NewEnglander77]

I'll keep going back to communication, communication, communication. It's much easier to swallow the pill of lift issues etc. when they get ahead of messaging, own their shit without excuses instead of just constantly doing damage control. Just be honest with us. It seems like a passive aggressive response to call it trusty ol' gmx and claim trails open that are hiking only. We're in an age of new media, and the spin doesn't go as far as it used to.

I am also a long term second home owner (future primary home) with little interest in selling to move to another mountain. I'm extremely loyal and the MRV offers so much more than just skiing that we stay for.

 

[NewEnglander77]

Communication is both long-term and short-term. I do believe there are operational deficiencies when you can't clearly communicate ASAP about Mount Ellen lifts being down in time for people to reposition to Lincoln Peak without showing up first and getting three different messages from the report, staff on site and others in the know. When I arrived to Mount Ellen the other day, GMX was not even spinning. There was no chance that it was even getting loaded with skiers before 9:30 at the earliest if it wasn't running by 8 AM. Proper communication would have put this in the report. Paints a picture of poor management in my opinion. How one deals with crisis situations is a very good tell on the organization.

 

[thetrailboss]

Originally they announced back in (2022? I think) both Heaven's Gate and NRX would be replaced together in 2024. They then it changed to Heaven's Gate 2024 and NRX in 2025, then that got pulled and the replacement of NRX is now unknown to the public. Also Stratton had planned on replacing Tamarack in 2025, but that also has been pulled. This is leading to the rumors Alterra is cutting back on capital investments.

Cutting back on the East Coast to be more specific. There is no shortage of investment being made elsewhere.

The investment in employee housing doesn't seem to be imminent either, although some of that rests on Warrens shitty zoning and the town's inability to embrace housing growth.

Again, IKON pass sales have been flat if not down.....

 

[ducky]

really a bummer all this.

i dont think its ops' fault (mostly), but i had a straight up mediocre day at lincoln peak on saturday - my first day this season that i wouldnt classify as good to great.

it was really cold. not managements fault. was surprised my layers and face mask didnt keep me toasty. prob bc i hiked to castlerock, sweat, and then was wet in the cold. thats my fault.

but i just barely found any good snow. the top of ripcord was a disaster. my poor season1 armadas. then once i got past the crap of it the new snow on ripcord was so strangely wind effected. organgrinder was a deathtrap of dust on bumps with ice troughs. paradise skied ok but not nearly as good as i expected with the new snow. castlerock was kinda not worth the hike (liftline was not soft at all. it got good once i got to cotillion. really glad for those few powder turns). the unmarked woods next to organgrinder skied well. most of the other woods on lincoln peak are low (below super bravo) and dont have the good coverage yet to handle their pitch. and all of the glades, including marked ones, are full of fucking deadfall. i dont know if any clean up has occurred in the glades at all. eden is a fucking mess.

i was considering going back sunday for mount ellen bc the glades tend to be higher and better there (tumbler, exterminator, bravo, and the unmarked woods next to summit chair line). but after hearing good words about stratton woods, i decided to drive 80 min south instead of north, and had one of my best days of the season. then i learn that ellen lifts were fucked all day.

As far as I know, they are not allowed to clear any deadfall in the GMNF.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

ah. well that explains that. stinks tho. the glades are in very rough shape imo. i have found more consistently open tree skiing everywhere else this season. seems better at ellen than lp. prob bc of elevation.

 

[Shredmonkey254]

ah. well that explains that. stinks tho. the glades are in very rough shape imo. i have found more consistently open tree skiing everywhere else this season. seems better at ellen than lp. prob bc of elevation.

this explains my fear of not enough snow to have gone in the woods yesterday, I'm used to woods that need enough snow that you float over the deadwood. One thing I'm learning from hitting different mountains is that other mountains appear to clear the woods. Both Saddleback and Sunday River woods appear to be cleaned out and apparently that is the case at Stratton too. I can't imagine the work needed to do this, a large burly undertaking! Probably the difference between woods runs that are marked on the trail map - cleaned, vs. unmarked woods - not cleaned.

 

[Hawk]

As far as I know, they are not allowed to clear any deadfall in the GMNF.

No they are allowed. I have seen them do this from time to time. Even in slidebrook on occasion. I used to volunteer until they said we couldn't do it anymore because of insurance reasons. But just a couple of years ago I saw them in Egans and Lews cleaning up while mountain biking.

 

[vtboarder]

My not very valuable two cents: when making the plans to replace the older lifts, HG was one of convenience, NR one of necessity. And so here we are today with a new HG that seems, for now, to be snowboarder unfriendly and a NR that once again can't get out of its own way. I'm sure Alterra head office is involved in all decisions but local management is the driving force, no? Really wish they'd just sell ME to someone/group who would actually take the mountain seriously and make the necessary investments. SB could be a cost sharing/joint ticket JV. And now back to my snow dance ...

 

[cdskier]

I also recall in the past talk of them mentioning having cleaned up some glades. I'd likely suspect the lack of doing too much clean up in the woods recently is more a staffing issue. If your staffing is limited, cleaning up glades is likely a lot lower on the priority list than other resort maintenance items.

 

[jonnyco14]

Not to stir the pot more but there is a mechanical issue with CR. Did it a bunch of times over the past week and people were talking about it at the top of the chair.

 

[solar]

@jdr14's post is spot on.

Based on corporate messaging from both sides, Alterra sounds like a relatively hands-off parent. In the October Community Weekend Q&A with John Hammond, he noted that Alterra's cash flow is flowing into Sugarbush, not the other way around.

He also said the $20mm for the snowmaking pond is too high right now and $32mm for employee housing doesn't work financially.

Sugarbush teased a North Ridge replacement years ago then seemingly quietly retracted the project. As @thetrailboss pointed out it's no longer listed for on LiftBlog for 2025 or 2026 replacement. I'm unable to find any mention of it on the Forest Service gov site; https://www.fs.usda.gov/sopa/components/reports/sopa-110920-2025-01.html so I think it's safe to say that, as of now, there are no formal plans to replace any lifts. [Callout correction from @cdskier - NR is on private land so wouldn't be expected to appear on FS]

To others points, a lot of frustrations could be solved if Sugarbush was transparent in their communication. Most New England resorts are likely seeing a lot of the same challenges Sugarbush has alleged are the primary problems - staffing, supply lines, and climate change. Others, however, are doing a much better job at communicating the plan. Boyne, in particular, shared well laid out plans back in 2020: Sugarloaf 2030, Sunday River 2030, and Loon 2030.

Sugarbush, as of now, there's no public timeline for:
-Snowmaking pond
-Employee housing
-Sizeable lift improvements
-Removing cups from the lodge

In the absence of communication, I'd left to assume there is no plan.

 

[cdskier]

Sugarbush teased a North Ridge replacement years ago then seemingly quietly retracted the project. As @thetrailboss pointed out it's no longer listed for on LiftBlog for 2025 or 2026 replacement. I'm unable to find any mention of it on the Forest Service gov site; https://www.fs.usda.gov/sopa/components/reports/sopa-110920-2025-01.html so I think it's safe to say that, as of now, there are no formal plans to replace any lifts.

One quick note...NRX is on private land and does not touch USFS land (unless the very top of it touches the long trail easement). So not seeing any mention of it on the USFS site is not a surprise at all.

 

[bumpcrasher]

Not to stir the pot more but there is a mechanical issue with CR. Did it a bunch of times over the past week and people were talking about it at the top of the chair.

And to the point from Solar......communicating which lifts are broken would go a long way.

 

[solar]

One quick note...NRX is on private land and does not touch USFS land (unless the very top of it touches the long trail easement). So not seeing any mention of it on the USFS site is not a surprise at all.

Great point - thanks for calling that out.

 

[cdskier]

And to the point from Solar......communicating which lifts are broken would go a long way.

Any mention of CR was conspicuously absent from that last blog post with all the various lift updates.

But again, I fully agree they need to be more proactive with communication. Whether CR really has an issue or not who knows. But now since they did not communicate anything that rumor will gain traction (whether true or not).

 

[solar]

And to the point from Solar......communicating which lifts are broken would go a long way.

Spencer King did a great overview in the last "State of the Mountain" post (12/27): https://blog.sugarbush.com/mountain/state-of-the-mountain-12-27-24/

They had mentioned continuing this series weekly so we'll hopefully get an update soon.