The "Sugarbush Thread"

[tumbler]

My skiing plans don't revolve around Slidebrook running or not but this would probably be a good weekend for it to be spinning. Moderate temps, light winds and probably a big crowd. Isn't next weekend another blackout for Ikon?

 

[solar]

Yes. For Sugarbush, Ikon Base/Session has blackout dates;

• Dec 26, 2024 - Dec 31, 2024
• Jan 18, 2025 - Jan 19, 2025
• Feb 15, 2025 - Feb 16, 2025

 

[1dog]

Maybe I am mis-remembering things, but it seems that in one of the many conversations it was revealed that the USFS/GMNF had implemented the snow rule to the special use permit to reduce damage to the roads/trails or something like that. And this conversation was years ago.

It's amazing such a small % of forest is limiting expansion when real estate- the thing that pays for this sort of stuff- would exceedingly surpass some of the challenges with housing and growth.
Certainly understand the want to keep things as they were- I'm one of those - but progress and population growth is limited by regulation.

I certainly didn't want to see freaking WIND MILLS on the Green Mountain ridge-line- but there was talk of that 10 years ago- this Slidebrook development would be far less invasive and with some 'low income housing' for employees added to the already-being-built houses in there would satisfy a lot of issues.

Don't get me wrong- skiing those woods for 30 + years was great - especially the 1st 15 all to ourselves. . . . but progress. . . .is needed to keep the place competitive.

When installed I vaguely recall only close before bears wake up, and it was a bone thrown to those who wanted to develop it as a lift-serviced in between base- its mostly private land where just the Long Trail top is NF I thought? This AI compilation ( I bet) is gathered from an old post you made in 2009.

Sugarbush Terrain Expansion Plans​

Sugarbush Resort has had plans to expand its terrain between its two mountains, Sugarbush South (Lincoln Peak) and Sugarbush North (Mount Ellen). These plans include several proposed areas and lifts designed to enhance the skiing experience and connect the two mountains more effectively.

• Inverness Pod: This area was planned for development to add more terrain and potentially connect the two mountains more seamlessly.
• Beginner Area Lift at Ellen: A new lift was proposed to replace the existing double lift, improving access for beginners at Mount Ellen.
• Pod of Terrain Between Tumbler and FIS: This area was designed to relieve congestion and offer new trails, enhancing the skier experience.
• Trail on Skier’s Right of Black Diamond off Summit of Ellen: This new trail was proposed to provide additional skiing options and improve the flow of skiers.
• Future Mountain Expansion Potential: An area marked for potential future expansion, located above the Village and terminating near the Slide Brook Basin, was identified to increase the resort’s skiable terrain.
• Area Between North Lynx and Castlerock: This proposed area was intended to add more terrain and trails, enhancing the variety of skiing options.
• Lift from Condos to Lower Snowball: This lift was planned to improve access for condo residents and provide more convenience for skiers.
• New Trails to Relieve Congestion: Several new trails were proposed to alleviate congestion on key trails such as Deathspout and Lower OG, improving the overall flow and experience for skiers.

 

[Hawk]

Solar I see you retracted your post. I didn't take any offence BTW. Anyway, Some will ski this weekend and some will not. There will be some snow. Just how much??? Ask ulr or mother nature or Skiology matt! There will be lifts running, some will not and there will be people bithing about just about everything! There is your state of the Mountain!

BTW a band from Portsmouth, NH Harsh Armadillo is playing Saturday night at the Castlerock. They are worth seeing. High energy original music with funk, rap and other twists.

 

[Hawk]

Don't get me wrong- skiing those woods for 30 + years was great - especially the 1st 15 all to ourselves. . . . but progress. . . .is needed to keep the place competitive.

Ahhh 1Dog. We need progress but not in Slidebrook. I don't know who you are but I must know you. You and I probably rode the bus together. Prior to that in the late 80's I would have been on of those people down there thumbing back to the mountain. I hate what they have done. Totally ruined a magical resource that was so unique. We spent years volenteering and cleaning those woods and now not only is it overrun, they can't even find the time to clean up the blowdowns and swack. How is that progress?

 

[KustyTheKlown]

i am really hoping for a smooth experience at mellen on saturday ...

tho maybe bolton could be a fun move ...

 

[1dog]

agree. regulation and ( the excuse) of liability of having 'unqualified' people in there cutting and cleaning. We appreciate all those years of your crews doing that.

Place is a gem, valley is a gem, but the 'free money for 15 years' and the lack of building new housing is crushing the growth, employment, and general operations of businesses in the valley.

I'd be good with all but SB build out on that TB list- but there is no chance to get a return on investment without the RE development.

 

[SkiTheEast]

It's amazing such a small % of forest is limiting expansion when real estate- the thing that pays for this sort of stuff- would exceedingly surpass some of the challenges with housing and growth.
Certainly understand the want to keep things as they were- I'm one of those - but progress and population growth is limited by regulation.

I certainly didn't want to see freaking WIND MILLS on the Green Mountain ridge-line- but there was talk of that 10 years ago- this Slidebrook development would be far less invasive and with some 'low income housing' for employees added to the already-being-built houses in there would satisfy a lot of issues.

Don't get me wrong- skiing those woods for 30 + years was great - especially the 1st 15 all to ourselves. . . . but progress. . . .is needed to keep the place competitive.

When installed I vaguely recall only close before bears wake up, and it was a bone thrown to those who wanted to develop it as a lift-serviced in between base- its mostly private land where just the Long Trail top is NF I thought? This AI compilation ( I bet) is gathered from an old post you made in 2009.

Sugarbush Terrain Expansion Plans​

Sugarbush Resort has had plans to expand its terrain between its two mountains, Sugarbush South (Lincoln Peak) and Sugarbush North (Mount Ellen). These plans include several proposed areas and lifts designed to enhance the skiing experience and connect the two mountains more effectively.

• Inverness Pod: This area was planned for development to add more terrain and potentially connect the two mountains more seamlessly.
• Beginner Area Lift at Ellen: A new lift was proposed to replace the existing double lift, improving access for beginners at Mount Ellen.
• Pod of Terrain Between Tumbler and FIS: This area was designed to relieve congestion and offer new trails, enhancing the skier experience.
• Trail on Skier’s Right of Black Diamond off Summit of Ellen: This new trail was proposed to provide additional skiing options and improve the flow of skiers.
• Future Mountain Expansion Potential: An area marked for potential future expansion, located above the Village and terminating near the Slide Brook Basin, was identified to increase the resort’s skiable terrain.
• Area Between North Lynx and Castlerock: This proposed area was intended to add more terrain and trails, enhancing the variety of skiing options.
• Lift from Condos to Lower Snowball: This lift was planned to improve access for condo residents and provide more convenience for skiers.
• New Trails to Relieve Congestion: Several new trails were proposed to alleviate congestion on key trails such as Deathspout and Lower OG, improving the overall flow and experience for skiers.

Been posted in the past but the above is all included in Sugarbush's vegetation management plan from 2008. Helpful for those who like to visualize the above. Haven't seen anything more recent. As others have mentioned it would be very interesting to understand the longer term plan like Boyne did back in 2020 with the XXX 2030 plans for Loon, Sunday River and Sugarloaf.

As far as USFS land in the basin according to that map, in addition to the Long Trail there is a small rectangle where the Slide Brook runs

https://skimap.org/data/205/3535/1590556476.pdf

 

[SkiTheEast]

I should also mention as Win and others have repeated pointed out - development in the basin was signed away by ASC as a compromise to getting the SBX built...curious, is that iron clad into perpetuity? no option for renegotiation?

 

[Cheetah440]

I should also mention as Win and others have repeated pointed out - development in the basin was signed away by ASC as a compromise to getting the SBX built...curious, is that iron clad into perpetuity? no option for renegotiation?

One of the worst decisions in ski history. Shouldn’t have joined the two areas by lift, should have developed the way there. So dumb.

 

[vtboarder]

Apparently North Ridge is so dead that they won't even mention it in the conditions write-up.

 

[Newpylong]

One of the worst decisions in ski history. Shouldn’t have joined the two areas by lift, should have developed the way there. So dumb.

There have been far worse decisions.

It was all they could get in, and that's all it ever will be. Development in DOA in there.

 

[tumbler]

One of the worst decisions in ski history. Shouldn’t have joined the two areas by lift, should have developed the way there. So dumb.

The opposition to the development in SB was deafening. The plans were awesome, a new base area and 4-5 pods that were connected. Les wanted to do something and the lift is what we got. The bears won. There was also tremendous opposition to the hotel being approved at the base of South- it was a Grand Summit back then and over by Easy Rider. It finally was approved and Win was able to amend the plan and build the base area that is there now. Can you imagine if we still had the old Gatehouse and the trailers everywhere? It was a dumpy base area. Change and progress was hard for people to take and when Les talked about putting a HSQ and snowmaking in on Castlerock that wound everybody up.

 

[SkiTheEast]

The opposition to the development in SB was deafening. The plans were awesome, a new base area and 4-5 pods that were connected. Les wanted to do something and the lift is what we got. The bears won. There was also tremendous opposition to the hotel being approved at the base of South- it was a Grand Summit back then and over by Easy Rider. It finally was approved and Win was able to amend the plan and build the base area that is there now. Can you imagine if we still had the old Gatehouse and the trailers everywhere? It was a dumpy base area. Change and progress was hard for people to take and when Les talked about putting a HSQ and snowmaking in on Castlerock that wound everybody up.

"Change and progress was hard for people" - story as old as time - still hold true today. Isn't the town and state currently slow walking the approval of the employee housing development plans while simultaneously blaming the regional housing crisis on the STRs?

 

[tumbler]

"Change and progress was hard for people" - story as old as time - still hold true today. Isn't the town and state currently slow walking the approval of the employee housing development plans while simultaneously blaming the regional housing crisis on the STRs?

Yes, see my rant on this from a couple months ago

 

[Cheetah440]

The opposition to the development in SB was deafening. The plans were awesome, a new base area and 4-5 pods that were connected. Les wanted to do something and the lift is what we got. The bears won. There was also tremendous opposition to the hotel being approved at the base of South- it was a Grand Summit back then and over by Easy Rider. It finally was approved and Win was able to amend the plan and build the base area that is there now. Can you imagine if we still had the old Gatehouse and the trailers everywhere? It was a dumpy base area. Change and progress was hard for people to take and when Les talked about putting a HSQ and snowmaking in on Castlerock that wound everybody up.

I totally get it. I just think SBX was a vanity project, should have held out. I would have used that lift for another run up organgrinder from somewhere around the bottom of Steins or just upper OG. The demands created on death spout by putting HG where it is would be my #2 dumbest decisions…. There are little experiences worse in skiing than Deathspout on a normal day. Why not have another lift to that summit, it’s big enough. Why settle. Why not be greedy. Look at DV, 18 more lifts. 18. LOL

 

[Hawk]

No that is not entirerly true. It was mentioned at community day that the location at Golf Course Road is being held up by abutters. The locaton at the former Mexican place below the Shark and next to the phone company lot is being held up because the AHJ want the culvert at the stream upgraded or fixed to protect it from siltation and the new parking and constuction. Evidently it will be very costly so they are looking at other different locations. And yes the price of real estate coupled with people renting everything out through apps had decimated the cheaper housing for employees. There is nothing nefarious being done by the mountain, state or town. Just the reality of the world we live in now.

 

[tumbler]

The Bravo and HG alignment was done in the 80's well before Les showed up when the top terminal burned. He replaced the Sugar Bravo triple with the HSQ and there was no reason to do anything with HG at that time. He added snowmaking to Jester and OG which helped the left run more.

 

[Hawk]

I totally get it. I just think SBX was a vanity project, should have held out. I would have used that lift for another run up organgrinder from somewhere around the bottom of Steins or just upper OG. The demands created on death spout by putting HG where it is would be my #2 dumbest decisions…. There are little experiences worse in skiing than Deathspout on a normal day. Why not have another lift to that summit, it’s big enough. Why settle. Why not be greedy. Look at DV, 18 more lifts. 18. LOL

It's really comical on here. As certain as you are that the SBX was the most stupid thing done, others think it was the greatest thing done. And it is so easy to pass judgement on things done years ago with the best of intentions. if Sugarbush did what people are saying on here there would be so many lifts and trails that there would be no room for the beautiful woods that we have, the vibe would be gone and we would be like Sunday River or Killington with masses of people and huge traffic jams. No thanks. The real problem is the influx of people. I say we limit the people and everything would be better.

 

[Cheetah440]

The Bravo and HG alignment was done in the 80's well before Les showed up when the top terminal burned. He replaced the Sugar Bravo triple with the HSQ and there was no reason to do anything with HG at that time. He added snowmaking to Jester and OG which helped the left run more.

I get it, just never understood it. I get the HG pod, but I always wondered why not right back up OG from a bit lower down, I mean why not both. Not blaming Les, I’m just saying there were other upgrades you could have done. You have a HSQ right up the old lift line from bottom of steins completely changes the pressure points. But it’s not my money, if it was it would be the first thing I would do.