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upcoming weather

ajl50

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Well hopefully everybody has had a nice first weekend out there. Mild temps and man made snow aren't my dream skiing conditions but hopefully if you got out there it was enjoyable.
For the next upcoming week we're going to have ANOTHER warm up but interior regions shouldn't get as warm as they did earlier this month and it should be fairly rain free. There actually is a little disturbance that will work through in the middle of the week and depending on timing could lay down some light mountain snow or sleet (I’ll take anything to cover the grass).
After that it's mild (average + 8) till Thursday/Friday really early am. Then the artic outbreak and low that is starting to slam that west (see two feet+ of snow at Alta mon-wed) will move in. While the air will have moderated somewhat, it will nevertheless be the coldest air of the season so far and it should arrive with some rain on the front side and snow on the back side. (No idea how much honestly) After that front crosses, the rest of next weekend will start several days (I say 5-6 days) of full-time snowmaking temps with daytime highs in the teens in some places. Furthermore, area's prone to lake effect will certainly get snow as the lakes are WARM right now and this air is COLD and dry. Depending on the angle of attack we could actually see snow squalls in the Adirondacks, Catskills and the Vermont mountains (jay).
Right now the GFS model, The Euro model and several other models have been flip flopping on the development of a coastal storm for the Northeast between 12/5-12/7. I have three thoughts on this. First this would require that the cold air arriving on 12/1 sticks around and the low and it's moist air ride up over it for snow. I tend to think that this assumption is pretty acceptable. Second there is a history this fall of weak low's blowing up - (see pre-thanksgiving absurd sub-tropical low that pounded the coast) so anything that can get organized off the Carolina’s would certainly have the potential to strengthen. Lastly however I don't trust the storm track and don't have any real confidence that the low the models see would actually reach the coast. Regardless we'll watch this more.
One last important point- This cold stretch upcoming IS NOT the onset of winter. Following this period- say around 12/8 we're going to see another warm up. Simply put the ENSO (el nino) and Pacific Jet is too strong right now to allow a blocking pattern to develop entrenching cold in the northeast. This cold air has too much energy and will slide off the coast. (When it does however the mild air could set off snow showers in the mountains as it over runs the cold air. See 3/3-3/5 snow event last march) The mild air that replaces it will not be a blowtorch but will limit snowmaking to nighttime at higher elevations. However there are a lot of signs that after that warm up we will see the peaking of the ENSO and the development of a nice blocking pattern/winter pattern set up starting around 12/20. This would be the onset of winter for real as most are in agreement that this winter will not have the insanity of last winter and we should see a nice stable winter from Jan-March.

Oh...any does anybody remember how the skiing was in the following winters
Dec. 2001 to March 2002
Dec. 2002 to March 2003
Dec. 1994 to March 1995

I know that's an odd quesiton but any specific memories would be great. I see these as years with somewhat similar weather patterns and while there is much weather data regarding snowfall and whatnot none of it is really ski area specific and we all know that snowfall and average temps don't tell the story of how good the skiing was.

Later-
(P.S. all of this can change in a hearbeat and nobody can predict the weather.)
 
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ajl50

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That smiley face isn't what i meant to write. I mean average plus EIGHT degrees.
 

Boardguy

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IIRC 2001-2002 was not a great year in the northeast. Coverage at Burke was pretty good but further south was not so good. I asked my son about 2002 - 2003 earlier today and he recalls that it was real good early season (again at Burke) and the coverage was quite good the rest of the season.
 

riverc0il

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Oh...any does anybody remember how the skiing was in the following winters
Dec. 2001 to March 2002
Dec. 2002 to March 2003
Dec. 1994 to March 1995
02-03 seems pretty good based on my reports that year. cannon had very good coverage for january on their natural snow trails and i show two reports from magic in VT with excellent coverage in march. april was rather good that year as well as i recall skiing lift serviced until the 21st at wildcat and cannon closing with almost everything open. not much on december, but i was skiing the trees at ragged the last week of dec and coverage at cannon certainly looked really good first week of dec. it certainly wasn't an epic year, but i think i wouldn't mind having that type of year more often than not.

not much historical data on 01-02 as i wasn't doing a lot of days back then but it seems pretty average based on what i have in my reports for that year.
 

AHM

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Ahh, the season of the edgeless board

01-02: In order to have any enjoyment in the east that season, I had to create the edgeless board. This was a dynastar 4x4 (107-70-92), and I just skied anything I cared to, once I had essentially decided I could care less about my skis. The edgeless boards still sit in my basement, they have no edge on either ski for a 17" space where the binding would roughly go. It was quite an eastern season.

Finally in Feb, unable to take it anymore I head to BC for a bit of real snow.

So, for the record, 01 - 02 was a very tough season.
 

RISkier

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We started skiing in January of 03 and there was tons of snow. I recall asking an employee at Gunstock if they always had snow like like they had at that time, the answer was no. I also recall quite a lot of snow on the South coast that year. I don't recall it snowing that much later in the year. During the winter of 01-02 I golfed at least once in every month and there was very little snow on the South coast. I wasn't keeping tabs on ski conditions, but based on the winter we had here, I'd bet it was a tough year for snow conditions.
 

billski

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This isn't right..

Something isn't right.:-x My usual post-Thanksgiving ritual (rather than fight with mall rats) is to string the holiday lights in the bushes day or two after Thanksgiving. I'm usually bundled with a parka, insulated boots and a hat. I have to go in 2 or 3 times because me fingers hurt too much from the cold and I have to fight with the stiff bushes.

Not this year. Outside in my sneakers and fleece jacket. Did it all in record time, no stops. :-x Something isn't right.

One thing never changes. An hour or two after the lights are lit, one or two strands partially fail leaving me with a dark spot. Why couldn't they do it before I got them on. Oh well, the weather's too bad :uzi:(read: warm) so I'll be able to :angry:asily fix them...
 

ajl50

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well as November closes we're looking at one of the warmest November’s on record for Burlington vt. We're looking at a monthly average right now around 43 degrees. If this value comes in correct that's easily in the top 5. So what does that mean for December? Based on the Newcomb weather station in the Adirondacks that might mean a little December snow and a decent winter snowfall.
4 of the 10 warmest novembers produced 4 of the 10 LEAST snowy Decembers including three of the first 4 least snowy Decembers while no warm Novembers produced top 10 snowy Decembers.
Furthermore warm Novembers produced three of the least snowy jan while only one of the of the 10 warmest Novembers were followed by top ten snowy winters (1995 - 10th snowiest winter ever) and 10 ten snowy months (feb. 1995- snowiest feb. ever).
However that last stat gives me some hope because a lot of weather people believe that 1994-1995 is a great analog winter for this one.
If that is the case here was the snow fall for
Newcomb ( adks)
Dec. 1994 - 12 inches, Overall winter- 72.3 inches with sustained nice sustained cold weather periods and a few good dumps.
However all of this is just past data and has NO bearing on what will happen. Just a simple example- Whiteface for example is nearly 1k higher than newcomb- so where as newcomb could get 1 inch whiteface could get 3.
I'm working on this for vermont...
check back later.

oh and I agree that something isn't right. I wore shorts yesterday.
 

Tin Woodsman

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well as November closes we're looking at one of the warmest November’s on record for Burlington vt. We're looking at a monthly average right now around 43 degrees. If this value comes in correct that's easily in the top 5. So what does that mean for December? Based on the Newcomb weather station in the Adirondacks that might mean a little December snow and a decent winter snowfall.
4 of the 10 warmest novembers produced 4 of the 10 LEAST snowy Decembers including three of the first 4 least snowy Decembers while no warm Novembers produced top 10 snowy Decembers.
Furthermore warm Novembers produced three of the least snowy jan while only one of the of the 10 warmest Novembers were followed by top ten snowy winters (1995 - 10th snowiest winter ever) and 10 ten snowy months (feb. 1995- snowiest feb. ever).
However that last stat gives me some hope because a lot of weather people believe that 1994-1995 is a great analog winter for this one.
If that is the case here was the snow fall for
Newcomb ( adks)
Dec. 1994 - 12 inches, Overall winter- 72.3 inches with sustained nice sustained cold weather periods and a few good dumps.
However all of this is just past data and has NO bearing on what will happen. Just a simple example- Whiteface for example is nearly 1k higher than newcomb- so where as newcomb could get 1 inch whiteface could get 3.
I'm working on this for vermont...
check back later.

oh and I agree that something isn't right. I wore shorts yesterday.


Not sure how useful this is b/c a station like Newcomb is pretty much only going to pick up synoptic snowfall with an annual avg. of just 72". It's not going to catch much in the way of the upslope or lake effect which help to drive annual snowfall totals of over 250" from K-Mart northwards.

I'd be willing to bet that as much as 40-50% of the snowfall at places like K-Mart, SB, Stowe and Jay is either from upslope, lake effect, or post-frontal passage wrap around that Newcomb sees nothing from . Perhaps you might want to use the Mt. Mansfield stake data on SKIVT-L as a better source of info.
 
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ajl50

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yea..i know that there are better reporting areas but I was just messing around and sorta pulled this all together. I'm working on a better location data. I want to avoid summit data but it might be the most accurate eventually.
 

from_the_NEK

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Here are some Mt. Mansfield historical snowdepth graphs from SkiVT-L (additional graphs can be made at http://www.uvm.edu/skivt-l/?Page=mansel.php3 )

1994-1995 SUCKED!!!
1994_1995.jpg


2001-2002 Sucked pretty bad as well
2001_2002.jpg


2002-2003 Was solid (not great)
2003_2004.jpg


2005-2006 (last year) was pretty crappy in January and much of February but the winter pulled through in the end.
2005_2006.jpg


AHHHH the winter of 200-2001. Why can't all winters be like this in the Northeast? :snow:
2000_2001.jpg
 
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ajl50

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Great data. I wish every winter was like 2000-2001. I remember that winter was so long my rowing team in NYC didn't get on the water till almost the very first week of march as the hudson and the harlem still had huge ice chunks floating down them. It was like three extra weeks of indoor training. YUCK.
However after last winter's freeze/thaw i'll take a normal winter this year.
 

bvibert

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That smiley face isn't what i meant to write. I mean average plus EIGHT degrees.

You can edit your messages to fix things like that if you want. If you check the "Disable smilies in text" box things like that won't happen, of course you won't be able to have any smilies in your post then...
 

ajl50

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I'm not really much of a smiley guy. In fact I'm often best described as a grumpy old man in a 25 year old body.
and right now that grump factor is sky high as i could have worn shorts today. UHH.
However it looks like we might have some nice cold air from 12/1-2 until 12/10. Then warm then cold.
 

Marc

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I'm not really much of a smiley guy. In fact I'm often best described as a grumpy old man in a 25 year old body.
and right now that grump factor is sky high as i could have worn shorts today. UHH.
However it looks like we might have some nice cold air from 12/1-2 until 12/10. Then warm then cold.

Well fortunately for you in another 5 years you'll be a grumpy old man in a grumpy old man's body.
 

ajl50

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I can also look forward to this:
http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2420&sid=fd76d34c1cb56541886b8553ca261e34
However the models are all over the place and this front has been speeding up, slowing down, forming a low pressure system storm, going straight across, stopping at NYC and just about everything else. Heck 10 hours ago these same models had 10-12 inches crushing chi-town.
My guess is that nobody has a real good handle on the next 96 hours and that there is about a 30 percent chance of this happening, a 30 percent chance of mild backside snows (1-3 inches) and a 30 percent chance of nothing but cold snow gun helping air on the backside.
 

Greg

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I can also look forward to this:
http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2420&sid=fd76d34c1cb56541886b8553ca261e34
However the models are all over the place and this front has been speeding up, slowing down, forming a low pressure system storm, going straight across, stopping at NYC and just about everything else. Heck 10 hours ago these same models had 10-12 inches crushing chi-town.
My guess is that nobody has a real good handle on the next 96 hours and that there is about a 30 percent chance of this happening, a 30 percent chance of mild backside snows (1-3 inches) and a 30 percent chance of nothing but cold snow gun helping air on the backside.

Please oh please! Let's save the weekend. Any thoughts on how this might affect the Berkshires or Catskills if this event comes to pass as predicted above?
 
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