VAIL SUCKS

[machski]

Vail Resorts Announces Opening Dates Across its North American Resorts as it Gears Up for 2021-22 Season

Broomfield, Colo., August 26, 2021 – Vail Resorts today announced the opening dates of its 34 North American resorts, offering guests one of the longest ski seasons in the country with a focus...

news.vailresorts.com

November 19th is the first day any Eastern Vail areas will open.


EPIC!!!!!!

Yup, with luck I will have many days and weeks already on my Silver NEP!

 

[slatham]

So Vail has announced opening dates at it's resorts. For Northeast:
Nov 19 Hunter, Stowe, Wildcat, Mount Snow
Nov 20 Okemo
Nov 24 Sunapee
Dec 3 Attitash, Crotched, Jack Frost
Dec 17 Liberty, Big Boulder, Roundtop, Whitetail

That Mt Snow target opening tells you all you need to know about Vails commitment to run areas as they have been operated historically. They don't give a dam.

 

[thebigo]

Yup, with luck I will have many days and weeks already on my Silver NEP!

Veterans day falls on a thursday this year. Kids have a four day weekend and Vail is not even going to try to get a single location in the east open.

Could not be happier to have a boyne pass this year instead of vail after reading those dates. Hoping for a good long four day weekend at SR or SL. Will be glad to give boyne our lodging and F/B dollars.

 

[ScottySkis]

Forums will be annoyed with this from Vail I not surprised at all but I agree they sucks Ass big time:
"""NEWS: Vail Resorts Announces Opening Dates, Abandons Early Season Skiing and Riding in The Northeast, Closing Dates No Longer Projected
Vail Resorts has announced their opening dates for all 34 of their North American Resorts. In the Northeast the big change this season is that Mount Snow and Wildcat are no longer slated to attempt a early opening, nor is Okemo which formerly was also one of the resorts to open as soon as possible.
Nov. 19: Hunter (NY), Mt. Snow (VT), Stowe (VT), Wildcat (NH)
Nov. 20: Okemo (VT)
Nov. 24: Mt. Sunapee (NH)
Dec. 3: Attitash (NH), Crotched (NH), Jack Frost (PA)
Dec. 17: Big Boulder (PA), Liberty (PA), Roundtop (PA), Whitetail (PA)

The other notable changes from last season include moving Roundtop one week later, which shortens the potential season in SE-PA, and Jack Frost is switching places with Big Boulder for which one opens first. There will only be one Vail resort in PA open this season prior to December 17th.

These dates are projections and subject to change based on conditions, however they do not generally open earlier than their projections.

Unlike in the recent past, Vail Resorts did not list the projected closing dates at their resorts at this time.""".

 

[dblskifanatic]

I agree. They very well may neglect those areas and run them as lean as possible, but they're not stupid enough to think that if they closed the eastern resorts they could simply get enough of those people to go west to make up for the lost revenue generated by the eastern areas.

Are there any stats anywhere on how many people ski exclusively in the east vs travel west at least once a season? I'm sure Vail has data from their own resorts on this subject, but it would be interesting numbers to know overall. I'd bet far more people ski the east exclusively vs travel to multiple regions every year.

Plus, if Vail closed eastern resorts, what makes anyone think people would go west instead? There's plenty of non-Vail resorts in the east. Many people would just go to those resorts instead.

(I'm also thinking Jim's comment may have been a bit facetious though).

The whole idea of acquiring eastern resorts is to build a following that may travel to key resorts and spend dollars there. If someone skis a mountain local to them and wants to plan a trip, they will probably go with their pass. Closing a resort, just makes people look else where. So maintaining the local resort os kind of like a sales budget,

Personally I do not have an issue with Vail - been with Epic for 6 years. What I have skied on the pass has had excellent snow, excellent quantity, great variety. Then again, i only skied Colorado resorts and PC. I will be skiing NE this year so that may change my perspective.

 

[Geoff]

I have a different perspective. The masses only ski from Thanksgiving weekend to mid-April. It’s hard to justify a longer season during a pandemic for that small amount of customers who are going to log 50+ midwinter days.

 

[2Planker]

The "masses" only ski for about 8 weeks total. Approx Dec 20ish-Feb 20ish.
Something like 85% of revenue is in that window

95% is Xmas week, Feb vac week and MLK weekend

 

[Geoff]

Dr Jeff: What’s the usual Mount Snow trail rollout schedule in November? I haven’t been there since the Les Otten years. I recall they have a jillion fan guns so they can blow trails in parallel. I’d be midweek-only.

 

[dblskifanatic]

Veterans day falls on a thursday this year. Kids have a four day weekend and Vail is not even going to try to get a single location in the east open.

Could not be happier to have a boyne pass this year instead of vail after reading those dates. Hoping for a good long four day weekend at SR or SL. Will be glad to give boyne our lodging and F/B dollars.

How many non vail resorts do you think will be open on November 11th. Killington, SR - yes Wildcat used to go for it but they seem to set dates that ensure opening and staying open. Killington on the other hand will open and if it warms up they will close then make snow SR is in the same boat Targeting Nov 11 is a loss leader potentially.

 

[Geoff]

The "masses" only ski for about 8 weeks total. Approx Dec 20ish-Feb 20ish.
Something like 95% of revenue is in that window

My perspective is 3+ decades at Killington. The parking lots are overflowing on Thanksgiving Saturday. March is really busy. It tails off a couple weeks into April. That’s a western fly-to destination resort curve.

 

[Geoff]

How many non vail resorts do you think will be open on November 11th. Killington, SR - yes Wildcat used to go for it but they seem to set dates that ensure opening and staying open. Killington on the other hand will open and if it warms up they will close then make snow SR is in the same boat Targeting Nov 11 is a loss leader potentially.

With the pandemic last year, Killington didn’t open with the upper mountain and the stairway with K1 download. They opened later with top to bottom. I’d expect the same this year. They would only close if lower Bunny melted out. SR has the midstation so they can open early.

 

[Harvey]

FWIW RE the people who don't hit the "breakeven" on any pass. (They call it "breakage" I think.)

Without breakage all passes would be more expensive. So don't hose on those peeps.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

^for sure. i love every ikon pass holder who only skis 4 days like a dope

 

[PAabe]

Switching Jackson Frost and Big Boulder is kinda silly since Big Boulder is the highest ski area in east pa iirc and the entirety of it is higher than JF

Historically BB was known for long season since it is relatively easier to cover in snow - lots of lift deferred maintenance and removal there under vail also

 

[machski]

How many non vail resorts do you think will be open on November 11th. Killington, SR - yes Wildcat used to go for it but they seem to set dates that ensure opening and staying open. Killington on the other hand will open and if it warms up they will close then make snow SR is in the same boat Targeting Nov 11 is a loss leader potentially.

In a normal year (non Covid) with seasonable temps, add to that Loon, Bretton Woods, possibly Sugarloaf too. The list would have been bigger of not for Vail. Sure, there is a chance the real early push areas (K and SR) could see a big thaw and shut to reopen later. It is also possible they manage to stay open with a second week November thaw and Vail resorts cannot open by their planned dates too.

As to SR, they did not use the Locke midstation last year due to Covid and Brian Heon has mentioned he would consider not using it moving forward. I think if SR does that, many would want heads to roll. Guess we will see in a few months. I think the stairs are back in play at Killington this season.

 

[drjeff]

Dr Jeff: What’s the usual Mount Snow trail rollout schedule in November? I haven’t been there since the Les Otten years. I recall they have a jillion fan guns so they can blow trails in parallel. I’d be midweek-only.

Since they finished the West Lake Snowmaking project a few years ago, IF Mother nature is feeling cooperative with a decent window, Cascade/Canyon, Long John top to bottom, Gulch at Carinthia, River Run and Freefall on the Northface plus the Discovery learning area is their goal for opening. Hasn't always happened though (sometimes the Northface is delayed, last year it was Carinthia).

In the past they talked about Ridge and Snowdance as well for opening with their added pumping capacity... hasn't happened yet though..

With a planned November 19th opening this year, if Mother Nature gets cooperative from say November 7-10 and beyond, who knows what they could have open, as they certainly can pump the water to get a bunch of trails going quickly!

 

[ss20]

Jiminy Peak and Wachusett also almost always open before Veteran's Day.

 

[BenedictGomez]

If Vegas had a line on, "Opening Jack Frost by December 3rd", I'd go all in on the Over.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Switching Jackson Frost and Big Boulder is kinda silly since Big Boulder is the highest ski area in east pa iirc and the entirety of it is higher than JF

Historically BB was known for long season since it is relatively easier to cover in snow - lots of lift deferred maintenance and removal there under vail also

Dont you get it?

You CAN possibly open Big Boulder early, but it's almost certain Jack Frost wont be able to open early. By switching them, Vail gets to keep BOTH of them closed & act like it's just so, so, so very unfortunate.

 

[BenedictGomez]

New Vail Resorts Eastern opening 2026 schedule (probably):

All Eastern properties open February 1st (to push people to higher margin western resorts November - January 31.