VAIL SUCKS

[2Planker]

By the sounds of this, I’m guessing that Vail did not entertain the proposal for a purchase of wildcat?

Last I heard (last week) was that they had not responded by the Aug 15 date.
Contrary to popular opinion: I am not one of the investors.
I'm just an over qualified, 35 year NSP veteran. Always looking for the best season pass deal locally....

Tash & Cat have been good for years, BUT not last year.
Cannon is a lil far. Not a Loon fan.

May have to just be a ski bum.
Wow, haven't bought a pass since the 80's.

 

[gittist]

"

"Unfortunately they'll get my money as long as I want to ski 4 miles from home... so I'm really part of the problem not the solution"

They'll get some of my money too because there are five EPIC ski areas in Pennsylvania and zero IKON. I go to NH just for Wildcat so I hope they improve this year. I got to like Wildcat when the Red Hook Brewery in Portsmouth used to sponsor ski bus trips there.

 

[Hastur]

Wildcat skier visits are what, 100-125k per year?

 

[deadheadskier]

The sad reality for the Vail NH areas is that they just aren't friendly and likely never will be for a corporate bottom line looking to please shareholders.

Look at

Okemo - 600k visits a year, 15 lifts
500 acres of snowmaking terrain, 5 day lodges, 1 GM and the needed support management positions

Compare that to NH

Wildcat - 100K visits a year, 4 lifts
Attitash - 150K visits a year, 9 lifts
Sunapee - 250K visits a year, 8 lifts
Crotched - 100k visits a year, 5 lifts

Probably 600 acres of snowmaking terrain across those mountains, 7 day lodges, 4 GMs and all of the necessary management and staff to run them.

Easy to see that 1 Okemo is WAY more profitable than all 4 NH areas combined.

So, I get it. Doesn't mean I have to like it and support it.

Ski resorts becoming publicly traded companies is just the Walmarting of skiing. All about the shareholder and not the customer experience, but enough customers want cheap that they can get away with it. And that's quite literally the case with Vail with their bargain basement pricing that the locally owned competition can't compete with.

Very few Win Smiths with Sugarbush and Louis Bacons with Taos that have tons of money already and aren't looking to get rich off their ski properties. Wish Win would have sold SB to another guy like him vs Alterra. But they just don't exist. I'm sure Bacon will eventually sell off Taos to Vail or Alterra.

Seems like eventually everything will either be owned by soulless corporate bullshit like Vail or the very few state run places like ORDA ski areas or Cannon and then many more NELSAPed.

Some of those companies like Vail may eventually fail, but another corporate buyer will be the replacement most likely. Not a Win Smith.

Somebody win Powerball tonight and pry Wildcat back from the greedy evil please.

 

[Hastur]

I was thinking that wildcat is kind of trapped at vail now, at least until vail implodes (maybe never?) . I think it could easily survive and thrive with an owner group not fabulously wealthy but wealthy enough (a la magic) but it’s probably not worth enough for vail to sell It. its worth more to vail to show constant expansion than the 20 mill or whatever was offered to buy it.

 

[PAabe]

It has been theorized that in Pennsylvania Camelback and now Blue Mountain may be coming soon to Ikon under KSL.
You got the 7S/HV/LM pass in western PA and also now the Indy pass add-on to Montage/Blue Knob/Shawnee all at pretty reasonable prices so there is a bit of competition to Vail in some areas of the state.

and personally Okemo is the least favorite large hill I've been to but it definitely seems to draw the crowds

 

[abc]

Folks trippin about low season pass usage rates should spend time at a marina sometime. Your minds would be blown. Six figure boats (much higher than that elsewhere from where I boat) five figure slip and maintenance bills annually and some of these boats only leave the docks 3-4 times a summer.

I beg to disagree.

A boat (ok, the 6 figure kind) can be lived on. A “beach front cabin” for mere 6 figure? A steal!

At least that‘s what one of my friend has. I slept over at least one weekend each summer (some summers 2-3 weekends). I quite enjoyed it. When it’s 90+ degrees out? You bet that 6 figure boat feels damn worth every penny!

Do you know how much a “season rental” in beach front neighborhood cost?

Back to skiing. For those “1 week vacation“ people, they’re better off NOT buying a pass, period! They’ll do even more fabulously if they go to non-Vail properties and ski only less than 4 days. They’ll come out quite far ahead! That’s the part I can’t wrap my head around.

The whole “subscription” modal are for 1) suckers who paid but no use; 2) people who pay because they’ve already use it regularly. I guess the selfish side of me is happy to see a lot of the type 1 subsidizing my subscription. Still doesn’t make me understand any of those people!

 

[Smellytele]

and personally Okemo is the least favorite large hill I've been to but it definitely seems to draw the crowds

Plop me down on any trail at okemo or the front of mt snow and I couldn’t tell the difference or Stratton to tell the truth.

 

[cdskier]

and personally Okemo is the least favorite large hill I've been to but it definitely seems to draw the crowds

I agree, but there's also a lot of people that simply enjoy skiing on wide open groomed cruisers all day long. I'm personally easily bored at Okemo, but my brother loves that type of terrain and hates anything ungroomed. Okemo also has the advantage of being closer to the NY metro market than places further north that have more interesting terrain. That extra 1-2+ hours is a deal breaker for many so it isn't at all surprising how appealing it is.

 

[Smellytele]

Also have friends who love okemo and Bretton woods. We no longer ski together as the will not ski at the places we love as they hate Magic, Cannon, Wildcat and others.

 

[ss20]

One guy from my ski club skis every single weekend at Okemo Thanksgiving-April. Every weekend. He'll spend a few days off the groomers is the snow is really deep. He does the 4 hour Friday night trek from CT and experiences the same fun moments/challenges that group living in a ski house presents. He was always out the door before me to ensure getting first chair despite the fact that I always drove the extra 15 minutes to Killington.

In my eyes he's just as dedicated a ski bum as me.

 

[deadheadskier]

I beg to disagree.

A boat (ok, the 6 figure kind) can be lived on. A “beach front cabin” for mere 6 figure? A steal!

At least that‘s what one of my friend has. I slept over at least one weekend each summer (some summers 2-3 weekends). I quite enjoyed it. When it’s 90+ degrees out? You bet that 6 figure boat feels damn worth every penny!

Do you know how much a “season rental” in beach front neighborhood cost?

Back to skiing. For those “1 week vacation“ people, they’re better off NOT buying a pass, period! They’ll do even more fabulously if they go to non-Vail properties and ski only less than 4 days. They’ll come out quite far ahead! That’s the part I can’t wrap my head around.

The whole “subscription” modal are for 1) suckers who paid but no use; 2) people who pay because they’ve already use it regularly. I guess the selfish side of me is happy to see a lot of the type 1 subsidizing my subscription. Still doesn’t make me understand any of those people!

Holy shit ABC

You strike again with your contrarian random anecdotal bullshit about a topic you just proved you know nothing about.

You honestly should just change your handle on here to:

"I beg to disagree even if I don't know what I'm talking about"

I spent $31k on my 16 year old 25' bowrider. You can't sleep on it. My slip, winter storage dues and basic maintenance without anything major going wrong costs me $8k a year. Huge fuel bills and sweat equity on top of that maintaining the boat.

My setup is POVERTY on the lake compared to most of my dock neighbors.

The modern model of my boat costs $150k+ and again, not some cabin cruiser you can sleep on. Just a very nice 25' bowrider

All around me are people with $150-300k+ boats that they don't sleep on, have higher slip and storage dues than me and use them 4-5 times a season.

I use mine 30+ times a year. So even subtracting the boat depreciation cost out of the equation it's about $350 every time I use it.

Those 4-5 time a season users? $1500 an outing.

Those same folks could rent a boat like mine for $800 a day from Goodhues marina.

Same calculus you are questioning. Why spend $1k on a full Vail pass for only 4 days of skiing when you could probably pay as you go for $600 if you prebook online?

Answer: It's a one time transactional thing for such people. They don't even think about the math. Joe Texas or Florida wants that one visit to the mountains with his family for the winter and just hits send payment on the internet and doesn't care about the cost per day value

 

[deadheadskier]

I was thinking that wildcat is kind of trapped at vail now, at least until vail implodes (maybe never?) . I think it could easily survive and thrive with an owner group not fabulously wealthy but wealthy enough (a la magic) but it’s probably not worth enough for vail to sell It. its worth more to vail to show constant expansion than the 20 mill or whatever was offered to buy it.

Unfortunately I think you are right. Lost leader for Vail. They'd be more concerned about perceived company turbulence to the shareholders costing more stock value than they'd receive on the sale return

 

[ss20]

Vail stock has slumped a bit from June highs. Trading around $300 now after hitting the $330s.

Still kicking myself for not buying in April, lol.

 

[2Planker]

I was thinking that wildcat is kind of trapped at vail now, at least until vail implodes (maybe never?) . I think it could easily survive and thrive with an owner group not fabulously wealthy but wealthy enough (a la magic) but it’s probably not worth enough for vail to sell It. its worth more to vail to show constant expansion than the 20 mill or whatever was offered to buy it.

Exactly. That's how Les O. started.
While the GM @ SR, he "bought" SR from his father in law, because he hated to see mgmt focus all their efforts elsewhere, when he saw huge potential for growth at SR.

 

[drjeff]

Holy shit ABC

You strike again with your contrarian random anecdotal bullshit about a topic you just proved you know nothing about.

You honestly should just change your handle on here to:

"I beg to disagree even if I don't know what I'm talking about"

I spent $31k on my 16 year old 25' bowrider. You can't sleep on it. My slip, winter storage dues and basic maintenance without anything major going wrong costs me $8k a year. Huge fuel bills and sweat equity on top of that maintaining the boat.

My setup is POVERTY on the lake compared to most of my dock neighbors.

The modern model of my boat costs $150k+ and again, not some cabin cruiser you can sleep on. Just a very nice 25' bowrider

All around me are people with $150-300k+ boats that they don't sleep on, have higher slip and storage dues than me and use them 4-5 times a season.

I use mine 30+ times a year. So even subtracting the boat depreciation cost out of the equation it's about $350 every time I use it.

Those 4-5 time a season users? $1500 an outing.

Those same folks could rent a boat like mine for $800 a day from Goodhues marina.

Same calculus you are questioning. Why spend $1k on a full Vail pass for only 4 days of skiing when you could probably pay as you go for $600 if you prebook online?

Answer: It's a one time transactional thing for such people. They don't even think about the math. Joe Texas or Florida wants that one visit to the mountains with his family for the winter and just hits send payment on the internet and doesn't care about the cost per day value

For perspctive DHS, I grew up as a Wolfeboro Summer kid/young adult until my early 20's, fortunate enough to have grandparents who owned a home in Delings Cove/Springfield Point. My grandfather stored his boats at Goodhue for years. Still have 3 separate family members either living full time in Wolfeboro or own 2nd homes in Wolfeboro.

My Uncle and 1 of my cousins co-own a 22 ft bow rider that they have a slip for in Back Bay in Wolfeboro. With the water level often being so high this Summer, they actually had to rent one of those $800 a day boats from Goodhue for a big family social weekend earlier this month, because they couldn't get their boat under the bridge and they don't have a trailer for it! First world, high lake level boating problems there for sure!

 

[deadheadskier]

For perspctive DHS, I grew up as a Wolfeboro Summer kid/young adult until my early 20's, fortunate enough to have grandparents who owned a home in Delings Cove/Springfield Point. My grandfather stored his boats at Goodhue for years. Still have 3 separate family members either living full time in Wolfeboro or own 2nd homes in Wolfeboro.

My Uncle and 1 of my cousins co-own a 22 ft bow rider that they have a slip for in Back Bay in Wolfeboro. With the water level often being so high this Summer, they actually had to rent one of those $800 a day boats from Goodhue for a big family social weekend earlier this month, because they couldn't get their boat under the bridge and they don't have a trailer for it! First world, high lake level boating problems there for sure!

It's too bad that bridge is so low and is periodically unpassable. Back Bay Wolfeboro would be an awesome place to store a boat with all the other activities available near the dock.

We very much enjoy using Wolfeboro town docks to walk around town and grab lunch. But it's purely a midweek affair for us as lines to wait for a slip can be 30-60 minutes unless you show up by 10AM. Not too different than prime chairlifts on weekends at popular ski resorts!

 

[drjeff]

It's too bad that bridge is so low and is periodically unpassable. Back Bay Wolfeboro would be an awesome place to store a boat with all the other activities available near the dock.

We very much enjoy using Wolfeboro town docks to walk around town and grab lunch. But it's purely a midweek affair for us as lines to wait for a slip can be 30-60 minutes unless you show up by 10AM. Not too different than prime chairlifts on weekends at popular ski resorts!

Heck, even on some midweek days the wait at the Wolfeboro town docks can be a while!

Took my wife and kids to Dockside a couple of Monday's ago around 12:30 after we saw my 100yr old Grandmother who still lives in Wolfeboro. Even on that Monday, there where anywhere from 6 - 8 boats waiting for space to open up. Total flashbacks for me in my youth waiting for a spot to open up! Somethings never change, and some things you never forget!

 

[machski]

So Vail has announced opening dates at it's resorts. For Northeast:
Nov 19 Hunter, Stowe, Wildcat, Mount Snow
Nov 20 Okemo
Nov 24 Sunapee
Dec 3 Attitash, Crotched, Jack Frost
Dec 17 Liberty, Big Boulder, Roundtop, Whitetail

 

[deadheadskier]

Vail Resorts Announces Opening Dates Across its North American Resorts as it Gears Up for 2021-22 Season

Broomfield, Colo., August 26, 2021 – Vail Resorts today announced the opening dates of its 34 North American resorts, offering guests one of the longest ski seasons in the country with a focus...

news.vailresorts.com

November 19th is the first day any Eastern Vail areas will open.


EPIC!!!!!!