VAIL SUCKS

[Mainer]

Is the answer, masshole. I think it was 2 years ago, somebody stayed at Diana’s bath until dark. They couldn’t find the way back to the car. Had to call 911 and wait to be rescued.

 

[abc]

That’s 300 a day! This sport is seriously starting to push me away from it.

What “sport”? It’s entertainment!

Ok, it’s recreation. Like cycling or going to stadium watching a game. You can do the former for free or the latter for a fee.

If you’re indeed doing a “sport” in skiing, you’d be buying a pass. That’s more than affordable, for now at least. The difference? The former has no capacity limit. The latter does.

Not that I’m a fan of high day ticket prices. But some of the complaints are so out of touch with reality.It sounds as absurd as the high prices.

 

[deadheadskier]

The argument is participation growth and how high day ticket costs impact that negatively. Basically unless people are introduced to the sport as a kid by parents with the resources to make that introduction, the chance of someone becoming a participant is very limited at the price of entry.

 

[gittist]

In regards to "Is the answer, masshole?" Close. In the 1960s the correct answer was a Massachusetts driver. In today's world it's not so clean cut as there are a few state competing for the top spot .

 

[ThatGuy]

The argument is participation growth and how high day ticket costs impact that negatively. Basically unless people are introduced to the sport as a kid by parents with the resources to make that introduction, the chance of someone becoming a participant is very limited at the price of entry.

Even beyond introducing new skiers, casual skiers are priced out. My father got me into skiing but he was never a 30+ days a year guy like I am. Just a few times a year to scratch the itch, same with most of my friends. These passes are a great deal if you ski alot but if you only want to go a few times then its a fight to break even, especially when you factor in rentals.

 

[deadheadskier]

Even beyond introducing new skiers, casual skiers are priced out. My father got me into skiing but he was never a 30+ days a year guy like I am. Just a few times a year to scratch the itch, same with most of my friends. These passes are a great deal if you ski alot but if you only want to go a few times then its a fight to break even, especially when you factor in rentals.

For sure. I went to UVM and had tons of skiing buddies who while not as passionate about the sport as I am, they still skied 10-15 days a season on cheap college passes. Most left VT for better work opportunities, myself included. I'd say 80% of those casual skiers gave it up for good due to the high cost of day tickets. I think the ski resorts finally realized they were losing the 20-30 age demographic and responded with products targeted towards that age group, but not until ten years after I was done with school.

It will be interesting to see what the participation rate is in ten years. At least Vail is investing in a number of feeder hills and not letting to them die.

 

[raisingarizona]

What “sport”? It’s entertainment!

Ok, it’s recreation. Like cycling or going to stadium watching a game. You can do the former for free or the latter for a fee.

If you’re indeed doing a “sport” in skiing, you’d be buying a pass. That’s more than affordable, for now at least. The difference? The former has no capacity limit. The latter does.

Not that I’m a fan of high day ticket prices. But some of the complaints are so out of touch with reality.It sounds as absurd as the high prices.

Every year I feel more and more stress to continue being a participant. It’s beginning to lose its value for me personally.

 

[drjeff]

For sure. I went to UVM and had tons of skiing buddies who while not as passionate about the sport as I am, they still skied 10-15 days a season on cheap college passes. Most left VT for better work opportunities, myself included. I'd say 80% of those casual skiers gave it up for good due to the high cost of day tickets. I think the ski resorts finally realized they were losing the 20-30 age demographic and responded with products targeted towards that age group, but not until ten years after I was done with school.

It will be interesting to see what the participation rate is in ten years. At least Vail is investing in a number of feeder hills and not letting to them die.

I wonder if on some level, the cheap college and then the rise of the 20 something passes, are starting to work against the industry as you have a sizable group of folks who were on those passes for so long, that now when they hit say 30, they're looking at a more expensive (and in many cases still very reasonable and far less expensive than a decade or so ago) pass as being a cost prohibitive issues (and yes I get that some some in that age demographic the young family thing is a factor as well)?

 

[deadheadskier]

Hard to prioritize skiing expenses for anyone aged 25 to late 30s. The burden of massive college debt, saving for down payments on an extraordinarily expensive real estate market, daycare costs....etc. Ive had a small minority of friends in their 40s re-enter the sport once those costs have stabilized compared to their incomes. But those who have are very successful. Skiing has always been tilted towards the more well to do, but it's only getting worse.

 

[raisingarizona]

I wonder if on some level, the cheap college and then the rise of the 20 something passes, are starting to work against the industry as you have a sizable group of folks who were on those passes for so long, that now when they hit say 30, they're looking at a more expensive (and in many cases still very reasonable and far less expensive than a decade or so ago) pass as being a cost prohibitive issues (and yes I get that some some in that age demographic the young family thing is a factor as well)?

The family aspect is definitely putting a crunch on our extracurricular activity funds.

 

[eatskisleep]

Fine by me..... Let everyone go to Diana's

We'll take Arethusa, Ripley & Jackson Falls. All just as nice and way less crowded, unless it's Opening Day of Trout season

Just remember, it starts with the parking meters at Diana’s... next it will be Arethusa, Jackson etc. works at one place it can work at others too...

 

[eatskisleep]

Question for those in the “know”: how bad are the staffing shortages at Wildcat and Attitash this year? Looks like they are hiring all positions. Last year they had the snowmaking crew work a couple days at Attitash then shift to Wildcat then back, stretched thin, overworked, underpaid. How about this season? Will each mountain get its own crew? Are there even enough snow at operators to work both resorts (I love bumps so this wouldn’t upset me if there wasn’t haha)!

 

[eatskisleep]

What “sport”? It’s entertainment!

Ok, it’s recreation. Like cycling or going to stadium watching a game. You can do the former for free or the latter for a fee.

If you’re indeed doing a “sport” in skiing, you’d be buying a pass. That’s more than affordable, for now at least. The difference? The former has no capacity limit. The latter does.

Not that I’m a fan of high day ticket prices. But some of the complaints are so out of touch with reality.It sounds as absurd as the high prices.

I disagree. It is a sport for many. And it’s not always cost. It is certainly a sport to me. I could afford a season pass. But I like to travel to where the snow is and not be locked into one resort. Additionally I work too much 6-7 days a week. Not everyone has every weekend free to ski. We go when we can. The fact that you need to have a season pass to consider it being a sport is just silly. When conditions are right I like to spend my time in the BC too.

 

[mbedle]

That's been in the works for 10-12 years....

Not really parking meters and also not installed by the town. The USFS collects the fee in order to offset the cost associated with maintaining the ADA trail and toilet facilities, as well as creating new trails, restoring historical building, maintenance, education and youth programs located in all national forest.

 

[Ski2LiveLive2Ski]

I disagree. It is a sport for many. And it’s not always cost. It is certainly a sport to me. I could afford a season pass. But I like to travel to where the snow is and not be locked into one resort. Additionally I work too much 6-7 days a week. Not everyone has every weekend free to ski. We go when we can. The fact that you need to have a season pass to consider it being a sport is just silly. When conditions are right I like to spend my time in the BC too.

Something like an IndyPass pays for itself in 3-4 ski days depending on where or when you use it and doesn't lock you into one resort. They were available for under $250 through summer. Hard to see how something like that would not make sense unless none of their 80 ski areas are viable for you and appeal to you (or you plan to ski less than 3 days a year).

 

[cdskier]

Something like an IndyPass pays for itself in 3-4 ski days depending on where or when you use it and doesn't lock you into one resort. They were available for under $250 through summer. Hard to see how something like that would not make sense unless none of their 80 ski areas are viable for you and appeal to you (or you plan to ski less than 3 days a year).

Yup...I think the problem here is that some people expect to be able to ski anywhere they want for a cheap price on any given random day. That's simply an unrealistic expectation.

 

[MadKitty]

Question for those in the “know”: how bad are the staffing shortages at Wildcat and Attitash this year? Looks like they are hiring all positions. Last year they had the snowmaking crew work a couple days at Attitash then shift to Wildcat then back, stretched thin, overworked, underpaid. How about this season? Will each mountain get its own crew? Are there even enough snow at operators to work both resorts (I love bumps so this wouldn’t upset me if there wasn’t haha)!

Hearing staff shortages will be worse than last year. There are having an especially hard time getting lifties and snowmakers with vail's vaccine mandate. With the lack off staff they skimped on mtn maintenance this summer. They did not maintain the mtn's waterbars and a gully blew out on alleycat during a storm a few weeks ago. Not sure if they've repaired it yet.

 

[snoseek]

Oh damn here we go again

 

[2Planker]

Hearing staff shortages will be worse than last year. There are having an especially hard time getting lifties and snowmakers with vail's vaccine mandate. With the lack off staff they skimped on mtn maintenance this summer. They did not maintain the mtn's waterbars and a gully blew out on alleycat during a storm a few weeks ago. Not sure if they've repaired it yet.

It's definitely worse than last year...
4 days/week at best for both places. Shared snowmaking crew, which will suck on weekends when only 1 place gets the goods.

Most folks I know (including myself) are 100% done work for Vail.
BW, SR, Loon and King Pine have all benefitted from the Attitash/Wildcat exodus.

All positions are open, but not a ton of "quality applicants"......
Glad that F&B guy knows what he's doing......

 

[mgalluzz]

It's definitely worse than last year...
4 days/week at best for both places. Shared snowmaking crew, which will suck on weekends when only 1 place gets the goods.

Most folks I know (including myself) are 100% done work for Vail.
BW, SR, Loon and King Pine have all benefitted from the Attitash/Wildcat exodus.

All positions are open, but not a ton of "quality applicants"......
Glad that F&B guy knows what he's doing......

You think they'll each only be open 4 days per week? Wow.