Edd
Well-known member
Congrats on the 4 miles, that’s the dream.
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VAIL SUCKS
- Thread starter thebigo
- Start date
As far as I'm concerned every mountain should be the best version of itself no matter what the size or where the location.
This should be there philosophy if they really want to maintain their brand. They Drill all the core value "experience of a lifetime" into new employees. As a company if they wanted to continue to succeed they would live by this. I'll take cookie cutter mountains if they're day to day operations are solid
jimmywilson69
Well-known member
I mean it really is. Sure the skiing isn't great, but its skiing 4 miles from home and there is some decently challenging steeps. Yes they are super short. On the weekends there is a vibrant tailgating scene, at least vail hasn't shit on that yet. There will be a mutiny if they do. but again, what am I going to do drive 2 hours to Blue Mountain or 7 Springs? Nope. Vail has me by the balls. So my goal is to ski as many days as possible to make the price per visit as low as possible.
thebigo
Well-known member
How is the infrastructure at the three south PA areas? Do they need lifts / snowmaking investment or are they in good shape?
Edd
Well-known member
I mean, this seriously does not seem hard, and also obvious. I’m trying to equate the stupidity to another large corporation but drawing a blank.
Pick any healthcare conglomerate.
jimmywilson69
Well-known member
snowmaking infrastructure is in pretty good shape. Roundtop does have about 20 old highland fans on 2 trails but they are supplemented with newer technology. the other 2 are in similar shape. Roundtop has 5500 GPM pumping capacity to feed all of the fans. they can lay it down when they want to.
Whitetail is the newest and biggest (~1000 vert) and has nice base facilities. Roundtop's base lodge is small and old, but functional. Liberty's is a mix, and they have a small hotel.
Lifts at Roundtop are old and are in need of replacement sooner than later. There have been a few new lifts, but nothing in close to a decade. Same with Liberty. Whitetail is in good shape they have a high speed and some newer fixed grips, place was built in the 90s.
So what did Vail do here in PA? I didn't even ski locally last year b/c of the COVID crap, like taking all of the tables out of the lodge at Jack Frost.
jimmywilson69
Well-known member
They've killed a wildly popular night/club pass that was affordable and driven many of those people becasue they have no interest in skiing elsewhere or can't afford it. They reduced night operations although I've heard that they'll only be closed Mon Tue nights this year. Killed off the adult race league, which cost them no money to run it was sponsored by a local brewery and folks would happily drink beer in the bar after the race.
I didn't go in the lodge last year so I honestly don't know what the deal was at Roundtop.
I didn't go in the lodge last year so I honestly don't know what the deal was at Roundtop.
Edd
Well-known member
Hmmm, that’s interesting news.
jimmywilson69
Well-known member
without any regard to the local mountain, they just felt they could come in and force everyone into an EPIC Pass of some sort. What they don't understand and even failed to try and understand is that there are people that are plenty happy to ski at night in south central PA after school or work. They don't even want a $500 pass for the Northeast. they just want an affordable pass to ski locally. So instead of taking their $2-300, they are getting nothing. Seems like simple math doesnt it?
For someone like me who skis a lot, and north and out west it's great. But how does someone new get into the sport? That's what the bozos in Broomfield, CO can't figure out. I started in that program and graduated to a season pass for my entire family. Now you are expecting people to jump right into a very expensive pass product out of the gate with no rental option or lesson and rental option. Its ridiculous...
For someone like me who skis a lot, and north and out west it's great. But how does someone new get into the sport? That's what the bozos in Broomfield, CO can't figure out. I started in that program and graduated to a season pass for my entire family. Now you are expecting people to jump right into a very expensive pass product out of the gate with no rental option or lesson and rental option. Its ridiculous...
mbedle
Well-known member
Given the size of their east coast resorts, I pretty sure we are beyond feeder hill status in the overall corporate income.
Smellytele
Well-known member
Most pale compared to their Rocky Mountain resorts in size. Don’t fool yourself…
mbedle
Well-known member
Sorry, I meant to say the number of resorts, not the size. I still think the overall pass sales and income might be coming close to what they get out west.
ss20
Well-known member
No way. Just the lodging and f/b from Vail Village and Beaver Creek probably create more income than all the East. But we'll never know for sure...or maybe they post it in their SEC filings by region?
The East Coast resorts serve two purposes.... get people to buy the pass and fly out west. And (more importantly) Vail had snatched up all the properties in western North America they could...so to continue the growth they had to expand and buy EC properties.
It's the 10,000+ beds in Vail Village and dozens of restaurants where a plate is $40 that make the money....there's nothing like that in the East that's even close to generating that much $$$.
slatham
Well-known member
That is my worry, and should be Vail's - supporting new entrants into the sport. In the NE I figure the Indy's will fill the gap. But who is the reasonably priced Indy in SE PA?
BTW, I grew up skiing Charnita (now Liberty), Roundtop and Blue Knob.
mbedle
Well-known member
Vail does not own 10,000+ beds in Vail Village, they own 350 beds in Vail Village! They also don't own dozens of restaurants in Vail. Beaver Creek has just 120 vail owned beds.
mbedle
Well-known member
Blue Knob is such a diamond in the rough. It's a shame that it's so isolated.
I find that extremely hard to believe if you actually looked at their financial details. Over 85% of Vail's revenue comes from their mountain segment (lift, ski school, on-mountain dining, retail, etc...with over 50% of that being lift ticket/pass revenue alone). Their lodging segment (including dining attributable to their lodge properties) is not responsible for anywhere near what the mountains themselves generate. If you look at it on a net income basis instead of revenue, the breakdown is even worse (over 95% attributable to mountain segment vs lodging).
So how can a segment that generates 5% of their net income be responsible for more than what the entire east generates? (and realistically that 5% includes more than just the Vail/Beaver Creek lodging and dining)
