VAIL SUCKS

[asnowmobiler]

A friend took these pictures of the ticket line today at Jack Frost.

 

[MogulMonsters]

Does anyone know why Attitash hasn’t opened the snow belt? Kids are doing lessons, with instructors, walking uphill. There is snow and it seems silly.
I want to get my kids excited about skiing and hiking up to ski down is not fun for three year olds.

With the summit triple down (for who knows how long) shouldn’t they be getting the East west double open? Stoneybrook was groomed last night (and tonight) and it was closed today....

 

[thebigo]

Don't take your ire out on those working the ticket windows or running the lift lines, it's not their fault that there just simply aren't enough employees. They're trying their best.

I am booked at suanpee tomorrow, will be my twelfth day in a row at an NH vail property. I have been at one of their four nh properties everyday they have been open. I have seen nothing but respect for rules, other skiers and employees. I cannot think of a single confrontational instance.

I have many times discussed vails operational shortcomings with other skiers; especially when compared with Peaks and the competition. People get it, this is all tenuous and many are making sacrifices to make it happen. People do not get the lack of communication.

 

[thebigo]

Does anyone know why Attitash hasn’t opened the snow belt? Kids are doing lessons, with instructors, walking uphill. There is snow and it seems silly.
I want to get my kids excited about skiing and hiking up to ski down is not fun for three year olds.

Based on my observations and interaction with staff I believe there to be a mechanical issue that they are unable to rectify.

Not sure about the belt at wildcat. The belt at crotched was running today.

 

[abc]

The lack of foreign, seasonal employees, at many ski areas, and not just Vail properties, is going to be an issue likely all season that will probably be seen in the most direct fashion via not all lifts running at once.

I didn't noticed too many foreign accents manning the lifts in years past.

In fact, I didn't notice too many foreign accents in the northeast. Period.

 

[Smellytele]

I didn't noticed too many foreign accents manning the lifts in years past.

In fact, I didn't notice too many foreign accents in the northeast. Period.

I thought you didn’t ski often in the East in the past so...

most areas don’t put them bumping chairs (although smuggs seems to.)

 

[abc]

I thought you didn’t ski often in the East in the past so...

most areas don’t put them bumping chairs (although smuggs seems to.)

Not "often", but enough to notice if they're in customer facing role. I really didn't notice many at all!

Out west, it's very much in your face. You don't see many employees WITHOUT accents.

So where are the J-1s employed in the east?

 

[Smellytele]

Not "often", but enough to notice if they're in customer facing role. I really didn't notice many at all!

Out west, it's very much in your face. You don't see many employees WITHOUT accents.

So where are the J-1s employed in the east?

Food, cleaning and I have seen them doing ticket sales.

 

[cdskier]

Not "often", but enough to notice if they're in customer facing role. I really didn't notice many at all!

Out west, it's very much in your face. You don't see many employees WITHOUT accents.

So where are the J-1s employed in the east?

The past few years Sugarbush has definitely had some of the foreign South American workers helping out with the lifts...

 

[abc]

Food, cleaning and I have seen them doing ticket sales.

So, unlike out west, where they're instructors and ski techs, the one in the east are mostly unskilled workers?

If so, why can't they find local to hire?

Also unlike out west, housing is not quite as scarce.

 

[skimagic]

I think the labor pool is rather small in VT compared to the labor needs of the big resorts. Ikillington alone employs over 1,000 in winter. 've seen a mix of locals and J-1s at the larger areas.

Housing for J-1s is scarce. A place in Ludlow I used to stay at went to all J-1s a few years back, just packed em iin each room, was, steady.hassle free income all winter for the inn owner.

 

[Edd]

Not "often", but enough to notice if they're in customer facing role. I really didn't notice many at all!

Out west, it's very much in your face. You don't see many employees WITHOUT accents.

So where are the J-1s employed in the east?

They’ve been working at ski areas in the Mt Washington Valley for 15 years at least. My wife, on behalf of Cranmore, took trips to South America two years in a row to do the hiring. That was maybe 2006 and 2007.

 

[jimmywilson69]

I fell like I see a lot of J1s in VT when I've been there especially at Killington. I can't recall last year at Okemo. Heck, they even had some working in southcentral PA the last 2 years for Peaks and Vail. I have definitely seen them in all places working lifts.

 

[deadheadskier]

I think Attitash would be appealing to Fairbank if they can come up with the capital for it. Les Otten for a short period of time owned Cranmore as well as Attitash and marketed them together.

Crotched would be right up the Schaefer's alley, but they have taken a lot on in recent years with Catamount, Bousquet and Haystack now run by them.

Wildcat is much like Burke imo in that it is too big to close, but really is not profitable on its own and would struggle to find a buyer.

IMO, Wildcat could be more profitable than Attitash as a stand alone entity. The reason being is you can run the place so lean midweek.

You can be at 100% operation with just the quad, snowcat triple and carpet. The latter two can share staff. Then it's just one lodge, food court and bar.

Compare that to Attitash where you need really 5-6 lifts, 2 lodges and bars to run. Easily double the labor and utility requirements.

I think the largest opportunity for revenue growth for Cat is adding a mountain biking program in the summer if the USFS would allow it. It would make for an outstanding bike park. 2100 vertical with views of Mt Washington? In a location that draws more visitors during summer than winter? Hard to beat.

 

[icecoast1]

If so, why can't they find local to hire?

There arent enough locals to staff the resorts to begin with and the pay, benefits and career paths arent competitive with what you can get outside the ski industry so many dont stick around very long

 

[kingslug]

I guess if you can collect unemployment and its more than you can make standing in the snow loading lifts..then why stand in the snow loading lifts.

 

[Mainer]

Basically all the ticket checkers, half of lifties and food service were j1s at attitash. Wildcat gets their employees from the Berlin area. There is no inexpensive lodging in valley, the j1s used to pack like 20 people in a house. This year every rental has been taken up by the wfh crowd from mass. But attitash should be connected to bear peak right now and the quad open. They had enough snow last week to be able open those last week, and the lifties that were going to run the triple could run quad if there is a staffing shortage. Make Attitash Great Again stickers are going to be a hot stocking stuffer this year.

 

[deadheadskier]

Not a Vail mountain, but I'd be curious to hear how Snowshoe is managing their labor needs this winter. When I was working there in 2002-2003 we had hundreds of International staff members. There was no chance you could properly staff the place with locals. Pocahontas County, WV is about 3/4ths the size of Rhode Island with only 8200 residents. Easily the most sparsely populated place on the East Coast. They must be so screwed this winter

 

[thetrailboss]

They'd be a great addition for Boyne. That'd complete a nearly-perfect collection of East Coast properties for the Boston crowd. The future is bright for them with big projects coming up at the River, Loaf, and Loon. I also wouldn't doubt the Berkshire East owner getting into Crotched or maybe even Wildcat. Seems like there's some deeeeeep pockets there.

But I do see these places being some of the first to go if Vail sells some of its properties. Honestly it'd be a smart move to generate some cash. I doubt investors would see it as Vail being "weak" if they had to sell off 5-10 places they got through m/a to make a quick $20 million.

Boyne is a dark horse. They have been getting stronger over the past five years. They now own their resorts. Major investments at Big Sky.

 

[thetrailboss]

A bunch of us locals almost bought Wildcat approx 11-12 years ago....

It was on the market for a long time.