VAIL SUCKS

[thetrailboss]

I would have to think vail spinning off any resorts would not look good to investors.

It was rumored at the time that LBO was interested but I am fairly certain he never owned crotched. There was the famous crotched full build out map generated around that time. Crotched would appear to be complimentary to the boyne pass, actually a very good fit.

I think attitash and wildcat need to stay together but I have no idea who would be interested. I doubt any of the major players, best guess would be someone currently outside the industry with money to lose. The fate of attitash and wildcat is tied to Rte 16; completely different story if 16 ever got upgraded.

I have been told that attitash has never made money in the winter and Peaks was effectively forced to take attitash with mt snow.

It did seem that in the waning days of ASC that they did pair up resorts for sale--usually a robust one with a money loser. Sunday River and Sugarloaf. Snow and Attitash. Killington and Pico. From what I can remember, it seemed that Peaks ran out of steam and money when they bought Snow and Attitash. The only major investments were the Blue Bird at Snow and the major (forced) snowmaking upgrade at Wildcat.

It seemed that Attitash ONCE had a lot of summer business with horse events and other things. I never stayed at the Hotel at Bear Peak, but I have heard that it was poorly built by Les. The lodge over there was pretty basic IIRC.

 

[jimmywilson69]

Boyne would have a the NH and Maine market locked in. BUT if Tash and Cat are such "bastard childs" why would they want them?

 

[thetrailboss]

Boyne would have a the NH and Maine market locked in. BUT if Tash and Cat are such "bastard childs" why would they want them?

I would think that Attitash and Wildcat would cut into their Sunday River market.

 

[deadheadskier]

They'd be a great addition for Boyne. That'd complete a nearly-perfect collection of East Coast properties for the Boston crowd. The future is bright for them with big projects coming up at the River, Loaf, and Loon. I also wouldn't doubt the Berkshire East owner getting into Crotched or maybe even Wildcat. Seems like there's some deeeeeep pockets there.

But I do see these places being some of the first to go if Vail sells some of its properties. Honestly it'd be a smart move to generate some cash. I doubt investors would see it as Vail being "weak" if they had to sell off 5-10 places they got through m/a to make a quick $20 million.

You actually believe Boyne is going to complete those projects?

I very much have my doubts. I remember when they released their "Sugarloaf 2020" vision and webpage. They completed virtual none of it other than clearing glades on Burnt MTN and replacing two lifts because they literally fell to the ground.

Now they've released "Sugarloaf 2030". Very skeptical they get to much of it especially now.

Completing South Peak at Loon has been "coming soon" for about ten years as well.

 

[xlr8r]

Boyne does not need another mountain in Northern New Hampshire. They already have the Boston destination market covered with Loon SR and Sugarloaf, and buying Wildcat or Attitash would as thetrailboss said only cut into their existing mtns. Boyne would be better off looking at adding a day trip mountain in Southern NH, or a VT resort to tap into the NYC market.

Boyne plans seem over ambitious to me and they seem to overlook the priority of key improvements that need to be made. For instance instead of doing the Kanc8, I would think building the beginner area at South Peak and building a permanent Lodge at South Peak would be more important. Replacing Barker quad at SR is also more important than the Kanc8

 

[thetrailboss]

You actually believe Boyne is going to complete those projects?

I very much have my doubts. I remember when they released their "Sugarloaf 2020" vision and webpage. They completed virtual none of it other than clearing glades on Burnt MTN and replacing two lifts because they literally fell to the ground.

Now they've released "Sugarloaf 2030". Very skeptical they get to much of it especially now.

Completing South Peak at Loon has been "coming soon" for about ten years as well.

Yeah, I have to agree. When I heard "Sugarloaf 2030" come out I was reminded of Sugarloaf 2020 and how NONE of those items had been completed. Well, almost none. On the Storm Skiing Podcast I heard an interview of Sugarloaf's manager. The host was exuberant over the Sugarloaf 2030 plan. I wanted to tell the guy to look at what was done for the 2020 Plan.

Sunday River's priority indeed needs to be Barker HSQ. What is Boyne doing? Cutting the liftline for the Merrill Hill Development. https://liftblog.com/2020/12/16/sunday-river-accelerates-merrill-hill-construction/

That tells me that SR needs to generate $$$ on top of what it already does first before any other projects.

I'm not as familiar with Loon having skied there a handful of times and the last time being 13 years ago. But even then the Gondola was getting tired. It is a cash cow for sure.

A lot of the money from SR and Loon is going to Big Sky. Having checked it out last October, I can tell you that they have TONS of capital invested up there and lots of construction going on with housing developments. A lot more than you would expect for a place in the middle of nowhere. It makes me think that they are setting that place up for a sale, but maybe I am wrong. Brighton has not seen any improvements for almost 10 years.

 

[LonghornSkier]

Trying to Purchase two Buddy Tickets for tomorrow at Sunapee and the website is non-functional... Tells me to call the Colorado number so I do.. Been waiting on a call back for 90 minutes.

 

[thetrailboss]

Trying to Purchase two Buddy Tickets for tomorrow at Sunapee and the website is non-functional... Tells me to call the Colorado number so I do.. Been waiting on a call back for 90 minutes.

I'm still waiting for a call back from Alterra from three weeks ago

 

[thebigo]

Let us know how you make out with the buddy tickets, was going to purchase one for my brother in law next week.

What exit do most people take for sunapee? GPS tries to send me all sorts of back roads, tried 12a but maybe 12 is better.

 

[thetrailboss]

A

Let us know how you make out with the buddy tickets, was going to purchase one for my brother in law next week.

What exit do most people take for sunapee? GPS tries to send me all sorts of back roads, tried 12a but maybe 12 is better.

Are you coming from the north or south on 89?

 

[xlr8r]

Let us know how you make out with the buddy tickets, was going to purchase one for my brother in law next week.

What exit do most people take for sunapee? GPS tries to send me all sorts of back roads, tried 12a but maybe 12 is better.

I always get off at exit 9 coming from the south. About 20 minutes on 103 from there.

 

[Smellytele]

So wildcat has “2” ways down while Cannon has the whole front 5 open plus the banshees and 4 trails off the top plus upper hard scrabble. Multiple trails in the middle of the mountain plus the park fully built and brookside for beginners and has started snow making at Mittersill.
Vail’s running of wildcat is pitiful.

 

[kingslug]

Does Vail even know where Wildcat is??
Makes you wonder...

 

[drjeff]

Does Vail even know where Wildcat is??
Makes you wonder...

Does Vail even get the destination area that North Conway is? More like how many potential extra Epic Passes they could sell if they shine up Wildcat and Attitash?

Wouldn't surprise me at all if the potential gain in Epic Pass sales from some work on Wildcat/Attitash is greater than what they may realize if/when the rumored expansions to Sunapee happen in the next few years. They've already got an attraction, the town of North Conway, that attracts plenty of visitors into the region year round, to not try and capitalize on that, via flexing some operations muscle, is a bit surprising

 

[Smellytele]

Does Vail even know where New Hampshire is??
Makes you wonder...

Fixed it

 

[xlr8r]

And now Summit triple is on windhold today

 

[kingslug]

I wish vail would have stayed..in vail

 

[snoseek]

Whoever owns cranmore should have a look at wildcat those two would complement each other nicely.

 

[McFatt]

Lifelong Attitash/Kitty skier here. Reluctantly got my passes (for me and my 2 kids) at the end of last season when the vail credit was offered, and had no problem with the getting the credit and the actual passes in the mail. Yay. Fast forward to the lousy start of this ski season thanks to the weather, combined with the lack of snowmaking/grooming at both Attitash and Wildcat, it's been so frustrating. Did anyone else almost die on opening day at Wildcat? The top of Lynx was just stupid and unsafe. "Advanced terrain" should not include giant post holes and snowmaking equipment sticking halfway into the twisting trails with ungroomed ice whales, and every jerry and their brother flying, falling and survival skiing down at the same time. Woof
Attitash at least had the grooming right over on Illusion, although it took a few more days to get that opened. But the whole scene at the base area is a sh*t show. You cant really access the main lodge, the triple was stop and go, the closed trails full of new whales waiting to be rolled are just teasers, and now we're gonna loose all the snow thanks to the xmas rainstorm. So frustrating. But it's a pandemic, and I have to keep my expectations low, right? Arghhhh
I hope the MWV gets a huge storm sometime soon. Can't control the weather. But I can control where we ski next year, and it's gonna take a lot to get me investing into vail again. For a NH resident, Cannon checks a lot of boxes and seems to have the right thing going this year...

 

[thetrailboss]

Lifelong Attitash/Kitty skier here. Reluctantly got my passes (for me and my 2 kids) at the end of last season when the vail credit was offered, and had no problem with the getting the credit and the actual passes in the mail. Yay. Fast forward to the lousy start of this ski season thanks to the weather, combined with the lack of snowmaking/grooming at both Attitash and Wildcat, it's been so frustrating. Did anyone else almost die on opening day at Wildcat? The top of Lynx was just stupid and unsafe. "Advanced terrain" should not include giant post holes and snowmaking equipment sticking halfway into the twisting trails with ungroomed ice whales, and every jerry and their brother flying, falling and survival skiing down at the same time. Woof
Attitash at least had the grooming right over on Illusion, although it took a few more days to get that opened. But the whole scene at the base area is a sh*t show. You cant really access the main lodge, the triple was stop and go, the closed trails full of new whales waiting to be rolled are just teasers, and now we're gonna loose all the snow thanks to the xmas rainstorm. So frustrating. But it's a pandemic, and I have to keep my expectations low, right? Arghhhh
I hope the MWV gets a huge storm sometime soon. Can't control the weather. But I can control where we ski next year, and it's gonna take a lot to get me investing into vail again. For a NH resident, Cannon checks a lot of boxes and seems to have the right thing going this year...

Wow. Yikes.