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VAIL SUCKS

XTski

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What I think Vail is trying to do is develop their brand to be similarly consistent like a hotel chain. Be the Hilton or Marriott of the skiing industry. The thing is that there is a vast amount of Hilton and Marriott hotels that aren't corporate owned and are franchises. There is a minimum standard to fly the brand flag, but there is still a fairly large range of quality between various hotels. In that sense, Hilton and Marriott are really more like Alterra.

Returning more local control really is the only way I see things improving
Knowing the Marriots personally from working on their huge home renovations it’s insulting comparing them to Vail as they are much more into customer service , back when Vail was run bye George Gillett you could compare them as they were all about customer service back then, I see vail more like the old Holiday health fitness ie sell as many memberships as possible by using salesman on the floor vs real personal trainers
 

deadheadskier

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Knowing the Marriots personally from working on their huge home renovations it’s insulting comparing them to Vail as they are much more into customer service , back when Vail was run bye George Gillett you could compare them as they were all about customer service back then, I see vail more like the old Holiday health fitness ie sell as many memberships as possible by using salesman on the floor vs real personal trainers

You are missing my point entirely. Marriott family / corporate owns and operates less than a third of Marriott hotels globally. There is a minimum standard that's inspected annually to maintain your flag. But there is a wide range of quality still. Many of the highest rated Marriott's in the world are actually franchises, not Marriott owned.

My knowledge of this is based on having worked for both Marriott corporate and Marriott franchises and having attended a few national Marriott leadership conferences when I worked in the hotel industry.
 

KustyTheKlown

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thank you for buying a mcvail franchise. you may only use your designated vail supplied official vail burgers and official vail mayonaisse. failure to do so is a breach of the operational manual and franchise agreement.
 

XTski

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You are missing my point entirely. Marriott family / corporate owns and operates less than a third of Marriott hotels globally. There is a minimum standard that's inspected annually to maintain your flag. But there is a wide range of quality still. Many of the highest rated Marriott's in the world are actually franchises, not Marriott owned.

My knowledge of this is based on having worked for both Marriott corporate and Marriott franchises and having attended a few national Marriott leadership conferences when I worked in the hotel industry.
Okay, I was thinking theirs only a limited number of rooms that can be rented out, whereas ski areas like health clubs sell unlimited amount of memberships and the clients have to juggle their schedules to be able to use the facilities or face huge lines/ wait time
A few years back one the the Marriotts homes under construction mysteriously caught fire ( the old spontaneous combustion of stain clothes 😙) just as it was close to being finished so the builder got to build their 13 million plus home again , that job single handedly carried the builder out from the 2008 downward market spriral, they are very nice people with sweet cars!
 

deadheadskier

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I believe it. Their compound on Winnipesaukee is insane. Like 5 or 6 homes side by side all in the 5k to 10k square foot plus range. Whole compound is probably worth around $100M. Kind of obnoxious and out of place to be honest
 

eatskisleep

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XTski

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I believe it. Their compound on Winnipesaukee is insane. Like 5 or 6 homes side by side all in the 5k to 10k square foot plus range. Whole compound is probably worth around $100M. Kind of obnoxious and out of place to be honest
Yes, painter said about their house “in my country this is a whole village!” not far from them the owner of total wine and beverage (Trone) were a whole other story the Mrs (Anna) had a whole room dedicated for future gifts for their kids) totally self absorbed I would use my sick days when I would have them on my schedule I let them deal with my replacement and they were a bit nicer afterwards but I really don’t care for what their products do to people
 

Edd

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Somehow they missed NH
Pretty big miss; there’s 4 Vail areas here with multiple competing mountains. I think Vail would have come out looking worse had they covered NH.
 

IceEidolon

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They also missed the Hunter/Windham comparison. Those two mountains and their snowmaking crews used to brawl, but Hunter's hardly able to throw a punch this year. In PA, look at the delayed openings and lower trail counts at JFBB compared to Blue, and compare the Snowtime operations to Bear Creek and Shawnee.
 

cdskier

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They also missed the Hunter/Windham comparison. Those two mountains and their snowmaking crews used to brawl, but Hunter's hardly able to throw a punch this year. In PA, look at the delayed openings and lower trail counts at JFBB compared to Blue, and compare the Snowtime operations to Bear Creek and Shawnee.
Even comparing to Belleayre would be interesting. Since that article is using the % open metric, Belleayre is currently at 70% to Hunter's 56%.
 

snoseek

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I've been out skiing quite a bit all over. The general consensus from chairlift conversations is never again. The masses are going to take notice. Nh people are pissed and over in vt they all seem to be too despite semi normal. I think sunapee has been run fairly good but all those regulars aren't happy. The crotched people might be the saltiest....for good reason.

Right about now winter comes in and people quiet down but I'm not sure about this year. I think vail will lose a huge share in the northeast.
 

thetrailboss

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gittist

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I've been out skiing quite a bit all over. The general consensus from chairlift conversations is never again. The masses are going to take notice. Nh people are pissed and over in vt they all seem to be too despite semi normal. I think sunapee has been run fairly good but all those regulars aren't happy. The crotched people might be the saltiest....for good reason.

Right about now winter comes in and people quiet down but I'm not sure about this year. I think vail will lose a huge share in the northeast.
Most everyone will piss and moan but go right back to Vail next year but I truly hope that the masses will notice and next year Vail has so few sales that they don't have the revenue stream to rent a port-a-pot for a week.

How about we put the upper management into a port-a-pot and push them down a steep slope?
 

thetrailboss

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Most everyone will piss and moan but go right back to Vail next year but I truly hope that the masses will notice and next year Vail has so few sales that they don't have the revenue stream to rent a port-a-pot for a week.

How about we put the upper management into a port-a-pot and push them down a steep slope?
Rob Katz is counting his money and smiling.

I think Vail got too big. The fact that they just bought more ski resorts when they cannot run the ones they have is laughable.
 

abc

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Most everyone will piss and moan but go right back to Vail next year but I truly hope that the masses will notice and next year Vail has so few sales that they don't have the revenue stream to rent a port-a-pot for a week.
It takes several years before any of such effect to be felt. So don't expect any quick turn around.

Of those who piss and moan:
1) Those who have property in one of the Vail mountains don't have much of a choice unless they sell out and move to a different town
2) More new comer will replace those who can and do leave Vail. Until they got pissed off enough and leave, the "churn" will keep the pass sale figure stable.
3) Vail can buy more mountains to make it look good on paper.

So no, I'm not counting on Vail being pressured into changing for the better any time soon. I'm fortunate I'm free to leave.
 

thetrailboss

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So I just looked at Crotched. It is 12:17pm there and 32 F. Two lifts running--West Mountain, the carpet. Rocket is "delayed" for some reason. Seems really weird.
 

gittist

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Rob Katz is counting his money and smiling.

I think Vail got too big. The fact that they just bought more ski resorts when they cannot run the ones they have is laughable.
I was thinking (as painful as it is)..maybe Vail bought all of these little areas so they'd have a place to train people for the big areas? Like AAA baseball, the AHL, and a lot of the smaller hockey leagues. Having a manager vail at Wildcat is one thing, at Beaver Creek is another.

Yeah, katz probably saw the gravy train was coming to an end so he jumped off.
 

ss20

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I was thinking (as painful as it is)..maybe Vail bought all of these little areas so they'd have a place to train people for the big areas? Like AAA baseball, the AHL, and a lot of the smaller hockey leagues. Having a manager vail at Wildcat is one thing, at Beaver Creek is another.

I doubt that as there is little-no mid-level management at the resorts Vail owns. They can't train you to become a good accountant if you're just running some local numbers and then sending them off to Corporate. You can't train someone in Purchasing if 70% of the suppliers are dictated by Corporate. You can't be a solid GM if you're just executing what Corporate wants you to do, rather than making real decisions.

I worked in a decision-making lower management role at my old ski school. The pay is crap. The people are fun, but challenging. The hours are long. Really the only redeeming quality I found was that my inputs/choices could make a genuine difference in the quality of lessons we were putting out, staff morale, and guest satisfaction. If I worked under Vail and was put in a box where I had a limited ability to change things I didn't like I would certainly not take the role. Why come to work to be the person in-charge and have customers/staff complain to you all day without having any way to fix the problems/issues that are so blatantly obvious yet out of your control? That's just 5 months of torture.
 
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