VAIL SUCKS

[thetrailboss]

18% of terrain open at Cat and 31% (sounds high) for Attitash. Epic MLK weekend product

That represents an 82% and 69% cost savings respectively.

 

[MadKitty]

They made snow on wildkitten last sunday/monday but not enough to open it. They haven't made anything since then but they have connected the hoses on upper catapult. I'm not holding my breath on lynx seeing snowmaking this season.

 

[eatskisleep]

Remember when they used to do the 100K vert challenge on Lynx? Always wanted to try that...

 

[Mainer]

Tomorrow is going to be mayhem at atticat. Today was freezing, I imagine not many people went. North Conway is packed. Slop fest on Monday. Social media is going to light them up tomorrow, guaranteed epic shit show.

 

[snoseek]

Tomorrow is going to be mayhem at atticat. Today was freezing, I imagine not many people went. North Conway is packed. Slop fest on Monday. Social media is going to light them up tomorrow, guaranteed epic shit show.

Attitash will be an utter shitshow. Not sure about Wildcat but it wouldn't take a whole lot to pack those 1.5 runs.


Edit let the hate flow. Its for the better in the long run. All those second home owners up there probably want RobKatz head on a stick. I really really feel for the staff that has to constantly deal with angry customers that dont realize its not one bit their fault. That shits gotta grind down morale big time.

 

[Mainer]

Imagine owning a house off of Abenaki or renting it for the holiday weekend to find out they don’t really run that lift anymore. Looks like the double doubles are done for good, no longer on lift status.

 

[drjeff]

18% of terrain open at Cat and 31% (sounds high) for Attitash. Epic MLK weekend product

Truly sucks. But some of that Stat can be atrributed to Mother Nature thus far thus season.

Agree though that both Wildcat and Attitash should be somewhere North of 50% in their trail counts now

 

[deadheadskier]

Truly sucks. But some of that Stat can be atrributed to Mother Nature thus far thus season.

No it really can't. There is no valid excuse for Vail's poor performance in NH. None.

I'm primarily skiing at Gunstock this year with also an Indy Pass. Gunstock is low elevation and well south and much warmer than the Mount Washington Valley. They have every lift running and more terrain available than Atticat combined. 95% of Gunstock's snowmaking terrain is open.

You have a pretty good understanding of the business Jeff and recognize problems well evidenced from your posts here over many years. You know a shit ton more about snowmaking and lifts than I ever care too. You're also an optimistic person to a fault, so there's that.

That said, I can't figure out why you are such a devoted Vail apologist in the face of evidence that the vast majority of non-Vail properties are operating a lot better. Is it because you're wed to Mt Snow and basically have to cheer on the mother ship? Own a bunch of stock? Both?

 

[deadheadskier]

Imagine owning a house off of Abenaki or renting it for the holiday weekend to find out they don’t really run that lift anymore. Looks like the double doubles are done for good, no longer on lift status.

$1M+ homes. Wealthy families that EVERY year before Vail even in the worst of weather had expectations of 70% at least of snowmaking terrain open. Probably with kids that had a ball skiing a massive terrain park on Mythmaker. With a chair spinning right outside your door. Premium product for anywhere in New England. Now straight garbage.

Vail has literally made 20% as much snow at Atticat given the weather conditions as Peak would have.

 

[drjeff]

No it really can't. There is no valid excuse for Vail's poor performance in NH. None.

I'm primarily skiing at Gunstock this year with also an Indy Pass. Gunstock is low elevation and well south and much warmer than the Mount Washington Valley. They have every lift running and more terrain available than Atticat combined. 95% of Gunstock's snowmaking terrain is open.

You have a pretty good understanding of the business Jeff and recognize problems well evidenced from your posts here over many years. You know a shit ton more about snowmaking and lifts than I ever care too. You're also an optimistic person to a fault, so there's that.

That said, I can't figure out why you are such a devoted Vail apologist in the face of evidence that the vast majority of non-Vail properties are operating a lot better. Is it because you're wed to Mt Snow and basically have to cheer on the mother ship? Own a bunch of stock? Both?

Like I said, one can certainly fault Vail Resorts for whatever reasons they publicly say (or is the actual truth behind the scenes) for their minimal percentage of open terrain all of their Eastern Resorts. Some Resorts WAY more than others, no doubt about it.

However you also can't ignore the challenges that Mother Nature has presented this season as well. If mother nature had given New England multiple 1-2ft Nor'easters this season by now, as she often has in the past, the percent of open terrain would very likely be much less of the story than it is now.

Heck at my home Vail hill of Mount Snow, while there are only 2 trails and a half pipe with snowmaking not open this weekend, basically the only natural snow trails that are open are a couple of basically flat traversing connector trails that they can open with maybe 3-4" of base.

If Vail made some choices (and many this last year or 2 I certainly take issue with in the East especially!) based on the "hope" for a normal snow season, then they certainly should take all the criticism and then some for the choices they made in Broomfield.

I truly feel bad though for what the employees on the ground at the areas who deal with customers on the Frontline often deal with new, as they (the local employees) often feel so passionate about "their" mountain

 

[abc]

If Vail made some choices (and many this last year or 2 I certainly take issue with in the East especially!) based on the "hope" for a normal snow season, then they certainly should take all the criticism and then some for the choices they made in Broomfield.

I think that's THE point!

Vail has made a contract with the pass holders. The expectations are it would be as the same as historically the norm, which is no worse, if not better, than neighboring mountains.

Vail had failed to deliver on that contract. So it's very appropriate to label it as "s***"

Even if it only happened to one mountain, to the people who plan to ski THAT mountain, or anyone who lives nearby, would still think Vail "sucks". But when it's MANY mountains that suffered from such "choices made in Broomfield", it makes the corporation Vail SUCK!

 

[deadheadskier]

Like I said, one can certainly fault Vail Resorts for whatever reasons they publicly say (or is the actual truth behind the scenes) for their minimal percentage of open terrain all of their Eastern Resorts. Some Resorts WAY more than others, no doubt about it.

However you also can't ignore the challenges that Mother Nature has presented this season as well. If mother nature had given New England multiple 1-2ft Nor'easters this season by now, as she often has in the past, the percent of open terrain would very likely be much less of the story than it is now.

Heck at my home Vail hill of Mount Snow, while there are only 2 trails and a half pipe with snowmaking not open this weekend, basically the only natural snow trails that are open are a couple of basically flat traversing connector trails that they can open with maybe 3-4" of base.

If Vail made some choices (and many this last year or 2 I certainly take issue with in the East especially!) based on the "hope" for a normal snow season, then they certainly should take all the criticism and then some for the choices they made in Broomfield.

I truly feel bad though for what the employees on the ground at the areas who deal with customers on the Frontline often deal with new, as they (the local employees) often feel so passionate about "their" mountain

Do you not understand that the effort and product by virtually all of the competition is astronomically better under the exact same conditions Vail faces? The level of ineptitude going on in NH is astonishingly historic. I bet Attitash and Wildcat made more snow and ran more lifts 30 years ago than what Vail is doing right now.

All of us indeed feel bad for the local workers. We cheer them on and are appreciative as hell for the services they provide.

That's not what this conversation is about though

 

[MadKitty]

.....If mother nature had given New England multiple 1-2ft Nor'easters this season by now, as she often has in the past, the percent of open terrain would very likely be much less of the story than it is now.....

LOL. No way dude. Vailcat hasn't blown a flake of snow on the signature blue groomer in the entire state of NH. Before vail you could count on lynx being the first 2k vert trail open in all of NE. People are pissed and rightfully so.

Wait until epic pass sales fall and vail brings MWV style austerity to Mt. Snow so they can keep profits up a couple more quarters to get the c-suite their bonuses. It's not rocket surgery how this will play out.

 

[jaytrem]

All of us indeed feel bad for the local workers. We cheer them on and are appreciative as hell for the services they provide.

I thought everybody quit or got fired, didn't realize there was anybody left to feel bad for.

 

[IceEidolon]

They're about to be down another lifty in a couple days when their GM's two weeks notice is up.

 

[bigbob]

Run eastern areas with western managers who do not understand eastern weather/market and this is the result. It happened at Killington when Nyberg was at the helm. At least Powdr figured it out fairly quick and put someone in charge who understands the east.

 

[Kingslug20]

Interesting to see what happens next season up there...cant imagine many epic pass sales any more...

 

[Geoff]

Run eastern areas with western managers who do not understand eastern weather/market and this is the result. It happened at Killington when Nyberg was at the helm. At least Powdr figured it out fairly quick and put someone in charge who understands the east.

I’d point out that “pretty quick” was five years. The skier visit drop-off was so astounding in the first two years that Nyberg had to do something or he would have gotten fired. His last 3 years were marginally better but he was still getting spit on at the grocery store.

 

[nhskier1969]

Anyone see that Vail reached an agreement with Park Cities ski patrol union. Vail l was kind enough to give ski patrollers $19 dollars per hour. Wow it took Vail that long to give employees 19 dollar an hour wage. My son makes close to that Washing dishes. Boy vail doesn't care about their employees at all. I know that the ski industry is having a difficult time filling jobs but maybe Vails problem is they are being extremely cheap with hour wages therefore no one will work for them.

 

[IceEidolon]

They aren't saying what the patroller minimum wage is publicly, just the average wage.