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VAIL SUCKS

Mainer

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Dec 11, 2020
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Triple broke on Sunday at attitash. Super windy on Monday, not that windy today. Been closed since. Is it finally broken?
 

pinion247

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Oct 2, 2020
Messages
189
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43
Location
Norfolk, MA
Triple broke on Sunday at attitash. Super windy on Monday, not that windy today. Been closed since. Is it finally broken?

Super windy today as well. They did run a test around 2p for the triple but almost everyone gone by then and wind gusts were still high.
 

Quietman

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Joined
Jan 7, 2013
Messages
704
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18
Location
SW NH
Did Vail lower the wages when they took over or did they just not keep up with the market?
They raised wages for this season, just not enough to keep up with the competition, and they also reduced dependent pass benefits, and may have chased some away with the vaccine mandate.
 

johnl87

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Dec 27, 2021
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They raised wages for this season, just not enough to keep up with the competition, and they also reduced dependent pass benefits, and may have chased some away with the vaccine mandate.
ding ding ding! vail decided to mandate an experimental, now obsolete (against omicron) vaccine on their employees, instead of waiting for the supreme court to strike it down.

fortunately there were plenty of other ski areas that didn't do this to their employees and they're looking pretty good now. interesting that the areas that didn't force the vaccine mandate have close to normal snowmaking coverage and crews, while the corporate areas who fired or pressured their employees to resign now have skeleton crews and little snowmaking terrain open. karma?
 

Zermatt

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Connecticut
ding ding ding! vail decided to mandate an experimental, now obsolete (against omicron) vaccine on their employees, instead of waiting for the supreme court to strike it down.

fortunately there were plenty of other ski areas that didn't do this to their employees and they're looking pretty good now. interesting that the areas that didn't force the vaccine mandate have close to normal snowmaking coverage and crews, while the corporate areas who fired or pressured their employees to resign now have skeleton crews and little snowmaking terrain open. karma?
Just for the sake of accuracy....the Supreme Court did NOT strike down the ability for any private or public employer to have a vaccine mandate. They only struck down the ability for OSHA to have a blanket vaccine mandate.
 

jimmywilson69

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Oct 18, 2010
Messages
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Dillsburg, PA
So visits are allegedly down 18% and there are still massive lines due to over crowding and mismanagement. tells a lot about how they operate. The article is full of blame on COVID of course...

 

urungus

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Dec 1, 2016
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1,266
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Location
Western Mass
ding ding ding! vail decided to mandate an experimental, now obsolete (against omicron) vaccine on their employees, instead of waiting for the supreme court to strike it down.

fortunately there were plenty of other ski areas that didn't do this to their employees and they're looking pretty good now. interesting that the areas that didn't force the vaccine mandate have close to normal snowmaking coverage and crews, while the corporate areas who fired or pressured their employees to resign now have skeleton crews and little snowmaking terrain open. karma?
Vaccines are hardly “obsolete“ … While breakthrough infections are more common, you are still many times more likely to be hospitalized or die after getting infected with omicron If you are unvaccinated.
 

jaytrem

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Oct 22, 2007
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Vaccines are hardly “obsolete“ … While breakthrough infections are more common, you are still many times more likely to be hospitalized or die after getting infected with omicron If you are unvaccinated.
I suspect you're wasting your breath. Better to spend your time reading about some karma....

 

trackbiker

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Feb 8, 2005
Messages
333
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Location
Eastern PA
So visits are allegedly down 18% and there are still massive lines due to over crowding and mismanagement. tells a lot about how they operate. The article is full of blame on COVID of course...

This one isn't quite so positive and lists some of the problem and complaints towards the end.
Yahoo Sports Article
 

drjeff

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Jan 18, 2006
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Location
Brooklyn, CT
This one isn't quite so positive and lists some of the problem and complaints towards the end.
Yahoo Sports Article

Vail, sounding like mainly out of the main office in CO, has made multiple poor operational choices that have affected resort operations for sure this season.

I also think some of the visits down/lines up factor is that Mother Nature at times across the entire country hasn't been always friendly to getting terrain open, either via snowmaking or natural snow this season, so when things actually start to get decent, there's added pent up demand from the times when because of the weather people decaided not to go, and then add in the extra 700k or so EPIC's they sold this year. Put that all together, and you get what that headline, and likely highly controled content of the story itself, says
 

trackbiker

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Messages
333
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Location
Eastern PA
Vail, sounding like mainly out of the main office in CO, has made multiple poor operational choices that have affected resort operations for sure this season.

I also think some of the visits down/lines up factor is that Mother Nature at times across the entire country hasn't been always friendly to getting terrain open, either via snowmaking or natural snow this season, so when things actually start to get decent, there's added pent up demand from the times when because of the weather people decaided not to go, and then add in the extra 700k or so EPIC's they sold this year. Put that all together, and you get what that headline, and likely highly controled content of the story itself, says
I get what you are saying and agree a combination of factors have caused problems. However, other than the additional pass sales, every other ski area has had to deal with all of the same issues. When demand goes up in any business you have to increase production of whatever you are selling. Vail did not increase snow making to provide more acreage to ski. While supplying more lifts has a significant lead time, they did not increase pay to make sure that they had the personnel on hand to run all of their lifts. If you sold subscriptions for annual teeth cleaning and sold 70% more than your current patient load you would have to hire more dental hygienists. If you didn't, your customers would be as pissed as Vails and rightfully so. Vail management Failed miserably by any business standard knowing that they were going to be mobbed this season.
 

KustyTheKlown

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thebigo

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i look forward to johnl87 and andrewB joining this website. on the 'died' page. not that 'came close' bullshit.
I get that people are passionate over their beliefs but wishing death on those who disagree is a bit much; indeed it epitomizes everything that is wrong with both sides of our national discourse.
 

thetrailboss

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ding ding ding! vail decided to mandate an experimental, now obsolete (against omicron) vaccine on their employees, instead of waiting for the supreme court to strike it down.

fortunately there were plenty of other ski areas that didn't do this to their employees and they're looking pretty good now. interesting that the areas that didn't force the vaccine mandate have close to normal snowmaking coverage and crews, while the corporate areas who fired or pressured their employees to resign now have skeleton crews and little snowmaking terrain open. karma?
Let's keep the discussion on Vail.
 

drjeff

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I get what you are saying and agree a combination of factors have caused problems. However, other than the additional pass sales, every other ski area has had to deal with all of the same issues. When demand goes up in any business you have to increase production of whatever you are selling. Vail did not increase snow making to provide more acreage to ski. While supplying more lifts has a significant lead time, they did not increase pay to make sure that they had the personnel on hand to run all of their lifts. If you sold subscriptions for annual teeth cleaning and sold 70% more than your current patient load you would have to hire more dental hygienists. If you didn't, your customers would be as pissed as Vails and rightfully so. Vail management Failed miserably by any business standard knowing that they were going to be mobbed this season.

I fully get what you are saying, and fully agree, that especially for their realtively newly acquired Eastern mainly day/weekend and evening night skiing resorts, that are often close to the large population bases that very well may be a major source of all the new passes that they sold, how they have chosen to opearte their resorts hasn't lived up to what so many of their pass holders were expecting, which ultimately is to get as much terrain open and lifts spinning as possible, in a reasonable amount of time given the opportunitues that Mother Nature presents, during the hours that the customers are used to. Many things, that can't just be attributed all to Covid related issues, have played into the inability to do that at many of their resorts, and it's time to stop using that as a default excuse. Hopefully Kirsten Lynch will make the pivot and operational/policy changes that they need to. And some aren't as simple as they may seem, for example Vail vaccination for employees stance. I have heard that there are some parents looking to put their kids into the profitable kids programs, for whom having a vaccinated staff is (or maybe post Omicron spike won't be as much of a factor) of extremely high importance and has been a deal breaker. And given where many of the Epic passholders may live where Covid did some major damage

The point about Mother Nature that I was making was more along the lines of a confounding issue, than the issue. Since it was a slow roll out across the industry this season (often slower at numerous Vail Resorts than others) and then we've also had a few weekend days, when things were actually getting decent, where it either rained or has been very cold and windy, so those few "good" days weather wise that have fallen on weekends or holidays, the demand to get out there has been greater, and then add in all the new Epic passholders, and you get what we've had this season.

I get how fortunate I have been that my home mountain of Mount Snow, is arguably being operated much closer to "normal" than any other Eastern Epic Resort, so certainly my perspective will be different than what I read online from folks going to most every other Epic Resort in the East this season. I also certainly hope that Vail makes whatever changes it needs to, to get things back an operating as close to "normal" as possible, or else their data driven approach that might have the financials looking good now, will soon likely lead to them not looking very good, and the reality is from a marketing perspective,, it's very difficult to bring back an existing customer once you have done something to drive them away, and with the social media, and now with multiple news stories, more major media coverage of their operational issues (heck my smallish daily paper based in SE CT had a story about issues Vail is having and contrasted with successes that other Eastern Ski Areas are having this season that ran just below the fold on the front page yesterday) once they loose someone, especially a new Epic passholder who isn't tied to a specific mountain because of geographic proximity to a residence or kids in a program, with all the other options out there now, they may be gone for years, if not for ever, unless changes are made, to keep the customer happy, and ultimately that will get down to a robust sized work force who is satified for working for them, and that's not the current situation in significant enough numbers to meet the expectations of so many Epic Passholders, especially those who live in the Northeast
 

jaytrem

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Oct 22, 2007
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I get how fortunate I have been that my home mountain of Mount Snow, is arguably being operated much closer to "normal" than any other Eastern Epic Resort
Yeah, we're lucky so far. They did a very good job getting the lifts open on Monday. Probably better than in the past.

Now Jack Frost on the other hand. I usually go there a couple days a year when VT isn't looking so good. But only 3 out of 10 lifts running on MLK weekend??? Guess that's not a reasonable option this year. Will use my Montage Indy days if I make it out that way.
 

Apple Country

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Jan 19, 2022
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Long time lurker, first time caller.

- Okemo before Christmas was graded a "C" in my book. Kids lesson confirmation/process was a mess. One magic carpet at Jackson Gore during the weekend.

- Crotched on Sunday was a "C". Gnarly little hill for what it is, a complete dump of a warehouse/base lodge. Would respect if indy but Vail? Come on.

- Sunapee Tuesday was an "A".

-Onsite staff doing best at all, seem to be fighting Corporate.

- Looked up some SWAF tix for Stowe Presidents day week and they were more than regular online rate - Classic.
 
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