VAIL SUCKS

[machski]

E

Exactly. They’ve fallen behind. I also interpret installing a new flagship lift manufactured by a new no-name company to be to save costs. I certainly hope the cost savings outweigh the risk of having a lemon.

Well, they aren't so new no-name in Europe, but to date MND has only done surface lifts on North America. I am sure MND cut Waterville a nice discount to be their North American launch customer (and to install a chair with all of their bells and whistles too). That said, the High Country T-Bar is MND and the proposed World Cup T-Bar is also slated to be MND. We are seeing many resorts choose and stick to one manufacturer thesebdays to cut down on part inventory costs most likely. Perhaps Waterville has a good relationship with MND and to some extent, they have them all to themselves for scheduling right now.

 

[kendo]

and sounds like Hunter needs to borrow Stowe's plowing and trucking crew. They keep the Mansfield lot bare and are trucking out excess snow - daily.

 

[machski]

I think the Pliny Range would have been the best with MT Waimbek and Starr King. Would have been a massive boost to the Lancaster area economy

The old plans for that area were off the charts! They wanted to clear out an entire East facing "ravine" to basically create their version of Tucks but in bounds.

 

[machski]

The issue is also land ownership. Most of the VT areas were built on private or state land with the exception of the Lincoln side of Sugabush and the upper part of MT Snow , both USFS property. I think most of the NH White mountain areas are hemmed in by USFS land but significant expansion has occurred at BW Attitash and Loon. Cannon, on state land, absorbed Mittersill so that's an expansion too.

The other thing to remember is up until around 1980, VT was all for ski area expansion and growth. That started to change once we rounded into the 80's, when VT got more and more restrictive to development and expansion into the wilds.

 

[IceEidolon]

Well, they aren't so new no-name in Europe, but to date MND has only done surface lifts on North America. I am sure MND cut Waterville a nice discount to be their North American launch customer (and to install a chair with all of their bells and whistles too). That said, the High Country T-Bar is MND and the proposed World Cup T-Bar is also slated to be MND. We are seeing many resorts choose and stick to one manufacturer thesebdays to cut down on part inventory costs most likely. Perhaps Waterville has a good relationship with MND and to some extent, they have them all to themselves for scheduling right now.

They also have Sufag for snowmaking and had to have a tech on site often to get through their first year with their surface lifts and snowmaking system. Based on MND group's snowguns I'm not riding their lifts.

 

[thetrailboss]

Well, they aren't so new no-name in Europe, but to date MND has only done surface lifts on North America. I am sure MND cut Waterville a nice discount to be their North American launch customer (and to install a chair with all of their bells and whistles too). That said, the High Country T-Bar is MND and the proposed World Cup T-Bar is also slated to be MND. We are seeing many resorts choose and stick to one manufacturer thesebdays to cut down on part inventory costs most likely. Perhaps Waterville has a good relationship with MND and to some extent, they have them all to themselves for scheduling right now.

I think competition is a good thing. But has MND made a detachable chairlift?

I know that, through LST, they have done a lot of surface lifts. I believe that the WV lift was significantly delayed and apparently the MND/LST snowmaking guns had issues from what I have read.

Hope it works out for the sake of the skiers/riders.

 

[xlr8r]

I think competition is a good thing. But has MND made a detachable chairlift?

I know that, through LST, they have done a lot of surface lifts. I believe that the WV lift was significantly delayed and apparently the MND/LST snowmaking guns had issues from what I have read.

Hope it works out for the sake of the skiers/riders.

MND/LST built 1 detachable in France and it was a failure. MND dropped the LST brand, and they now are aligned with Bartholet, which has built numerous detachables in Europe. So Waterville is in fact getting a Bartholet Detachable 6 pack that is being brokered by MND.

 

[thetrailboss]

MND/LST built 1 detachable in France and it was a failure. MND dropped the LST brand, and they now are aligned with Bartholet, which has built numerous detachables in Europe. So Waterville is in fact getting a Bartholet Detachable 6 pack that is being brokered by MND.

OK. That is interesting.

I was actually reading about Bartholet's latest big project at Flumserberg. Pretty nice.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Ignore is basically Nah Nah I can’t hear you, That’s what little kids do. How do you know You’re right if you only listen to one side. I think the bluAnon people are just as crazy as the anti-vaxxers. As always the truth is somewhere in the middle
I’m waiting for my answer Bostonian, what does the VAX mandate do for the Ski area besides making it harder To find employees?

Yeah - no. Show me the data on what the "middle ground" is on vaccinations.

 

[Great Bear]

I’m waiting for my answer Bostonian, what does the VAX mandate do for the Ski area besides making it harder To find employees?

It reduces (but does not eliminate) the likely hood of outbreaks among their staff and significantly reduces the chances that any will be seriously ill which would keep them out of work for extended periods.

 

[icecoast1]

Had they not had the mandate, they likely would have lost more employees and many of the 80 affected would have been out for longer.

Doubtful with omicron and the high level of breakthough, but by all means believe your fantasy

 

[ThatGuy]

Using omicron as a reasoning for no vax is just so dumb. Not even trying to get into this debate but its like if someone offered a bulletproof vest and you said no thanks people have been shooting at the knees recently.

 

[mtskifan]

Came across this great video about the ski patrol at Jackson. Good reminder about the importance of institutional knowledge and local community at ski resorts. Vail execs should watch:

 

[TyWebb]

Vail stock falls: Capacity, staffing problems at Stowe

 

[thetrailboss]

Vail stock falls: Capacity, staffing problems at Stowe

Whoa. Some key points:

After talking to snowmakers on the mountain, Brown estimated that the resort may be employing approximately half the number they have in previous years, which could have led to less than optimal snow conditions on the mountain for skiers and snowboarders.

One financial report’s diagnosis: A massive leap in the sale of Epic passes, the fairly affordable tickets that allow holders to access any of the 37 Vail-owned resorts across the country, combined with conditions of massive understaffing, have led to a perfect storm of unsatisfied customers.

“I think the biggest problem that Vail has right now is they’ve got an awful lot of passholders and not enough bodies to provide the level of service they traditionally have provided,” he said. “Whether that’s food service, whether it’s lifties, whether it’s snowmaking, whether it’s shuttle drivers, I can’t answer that. But I do see stuff all the time.”

The Truist analysts also repeated allegations that Vail had “gutted” middle management and outsourced many of its higher-level positions to Broomfield, Colo., where Vail is headquartered, which has resulted in a loss of expertise when it comes to wage setting, hiring and a “local touch.”
This matches what Brown sees occurring at Stowe.

“I think it’s important to remember that nobody was complaining when the pass prices dropped. Back when Vail bought this place and they introduced the Epic pass, people were not complaining,” he said.

For all the complaints from skiers and snowboarders, Vail Resorts is making money. Another report published in mid-January from the same analysts reported that revenue is up year-over-year for lift ticket sales, ski instruction, dining and retail.

 

[Great Bear]

Doubtful with omicron and the high level of breakthough, but by all means believe your fantasy

It may not really be a fantasy - current best estimates for efficacy against infection at all when boosted are somewhere around 70%. Obviously at that level there can still be a good number of breakthroughs, but it still provides pretty good protection. Also, who knows how many of the Killington employees were boosted vs having just had the initial doses or if Killington required the 3rd dose at all.

 

[Great Bear]

Using omicron as a reasoning for no vax is just so dumb. Not even trying to get into this debate but its like if someone offered a bulletproof vest and you said no thanks people have been shooting at the knees recently.

Very good analogy

 

[Mainer]

The middle road is the vaccine works in preventing serious illness and death. It doesn’t prevent spread, Fauci just said the same thing. The mandate kind of made sense before all the breakthrough cases, makes zero sense with omnicron. A snowmaker has a far greater chance of dying on the job then dying of covid. So if they are willing to take the risk of the job, they should be willing to take the risk of not getting the vaccine. It’s also more dangerous for a 20 yr old driving to work then not being vaccinated.
This pandemic could almost be over but instead of celebrating. People are still bitching about unvaccinated. I think people like the pandemic and can’t let it go. The people still bitching about masks and vaccines are just as bad as the people still with a trump sign on their lawn. Time to move on, shows over.

 

[thetrailboss]

It may not really be a fantasy - current best estimates for efficacy against infection at all when boosted are somewhere around 70%. Obviously at that level there can still be a good number of breakthroughs, but it still provides pretty good protection. Also, who knows how many of the Killington employees were boosted vs having just had the initial doses or if Killington required the 3rd dose at all.

Very good analogy

The middle road is the vaccine works in preventing serious illness and death. It doesn’t prevent spread, Fauci just said the same thing. The mandate kind of made sense before all the breakthrough cases, makes zero sense with omnicron. A snowmaker has a far greater chance of dying on the job then dying of covid. So if they are willing to take the risk of the job, they should be willing to take the risk of not getting the vaccine. It’s also more dangerous for a 20 yr old driving to work then not being vaccinated.
This pandemic could almost be over but instead of celebrating. People are still bitching about unvaccinated. I think people like the pandemic and can’t let it go. The people still bitching about masks and vaccines are just as bad as the people still with a trump sign on their lawn. Time to move on, shows over.

Again, this is about VAIL and not VACCINES. A part of me wonders if this is Rob Katz or someone at Vail who is trying to derail this thread.

 

[pinion]

Whoa. Some key points:

"It would be a major concession for me to say they drove me out of here and it’s not going to happen. But I’m not going to be the guy that says Stowe is awesome."

This is where I'm at with Wildcat currently. I likely won't leave, but I'm not telling people it's worth coming either. That said, through the game theory lens Vail still wins because I don't influence many people's decisions and Vail still gets my $$