VAIL SUCKS

[deadheadskier]

So, given the limits on what the discount applies to at Stevens, for East skier's if they did this it won't apply to Epic or Epic Local passes. And you could only use you $150 resort credit at eastern areas, not Whistler. So this would not help your trip there.

All this said, I do not believe there is a NH specific pass and certainly not an AttiCat or Crotched only products. Given VT has run much better and is accessible on the Northeast pass, I cannot see Vail tossing any discounts out here. If you are firmly entrenched at Crotched or AttiCat, that should probably piss you off. But they won't care. Stevens is unique, as anything else on the Epic is quite a hike, the closest probably being Whistler. But that isn't a simple drive and back with Covid restrictions in place. So Vail has to do something there, not sure this will cut it. Have a feeling they are going to lose a ton of Stevens folks, and I doubt they get many traveling there on the Epic from other regions given lack of lodging, etc.

You're probably right in regards to NH. Let's say Vail does 700k skier visits in NH. Probably a bit high, but I'm using that figure for easy math because New England Epic Pass holders use it an average of 7 days per season. Call it 100k passes. How many of those though use it exclusively in NH? Maybe half? The other half equally splits their time between NH and VT.

So of those 50k pass holders that are exclusively NH skiers, say 20% don't renew for next season. Is Vail going to care all that much about losing 10k pass sales when they sell 2.1M nationally? And that number only goes up with the 3 PA areas they bought this season.

Nope, they will not care about that slight drop in business. Not enough to perform considerably better in NH I'm guessing. Snowmaking roll out will still be slow. Lift operations frugal. Same short season. Crotched won't go back to 7 days a week. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[pinion]

Also the guy running the wildcat snowmakers (the 1 or 2 still left) is a pathological liar. His names Tony, but everyone calls him Tony Tony, because he’s such a good storyteller he could win a Tony award. He tells anyone who will listen that he used to be a pro snowboarder, got 4th in 04’ X games, was tight with Shaun white, and tells very elaborate and detailed stories about him and Shaun. Says he used to be sponsored by burton, and is currently riding for Gilson. Not only is none of it remotely true, he’s not even a good snowboarder. He could pass off as having just learned. Anyways, that’s who runs all snowmaking and grooming at wildcat, a well known pathological liar. It’s a really shitty place to work, terrible culture. I left last season to work at black mountain down the street, much much better people.”

If that is true then I was almost duped into feeling bad for Tony, as his face was plastered all over Wildcat's social media feeds last week as "the guy who will get Lynx ready to ski this weekend", and go figure Lynx was not ready to ski this weekend in any sense of the word "groomed".

Now that I've typed this out it kinda further validates the liar part hahaha...

 

[abc]

The biggest take away from the Katz SSPC episode was that Stuart asked him if their Midwest and Eastern ski areas would go back to their previous openings and operations. Katz said point blank, they will open smartly. If they have to blow a ton of snow only to watch it melt and wash away prior to the Christmas holiday, they probably won't push the season that way to be "environmentally responsible.".

This was my takeaway as possible. He basically said that if your ski area is not open, you have the option to visit one their other resorts. There is a big difference between a 75 minute drive for a day trip to Southern PA vs 7-12 hour drive that would require an overnight to ski in NY, VT, or NH.

Tough luck for those in southern PA. But for those in NH, the writing is on the wall, get an other pass if you want a long season. BTW, the same probably applies to Hunter skiers too.

So of those 50k pass holders that are exclusively NH skiers, say 20% don't renew for next season. Is Vail going to care all that much about losing 10k pass sales when they sell 2.1M nationally?

Why only 20% not renewing? How about 50% not renewing? It's not like they have no other options.

Agree still not a whole lot in Vail's "big picture" though.

 

[eatskisleep]

If people keep buying epic passes regardless of the discount, They will keep giving a shit product. Stop buying epic passes. It’s the only solution.

 

[thetrailboss]

Exactly and correct me if I'm wrong, but your praise is probably dated a decade In terms of on property experience at Pats since moving to Utah

Have you been there since the well done base lodge expansion? You probably haven't skied Cascade Basin either. They nailed both those projects and kept the same quality service through growth. That's all we want out of businesses right?

You're absolutely right that I have a positive impression all these years later. I do need to revisit it someday. I do know about both of those expansions.

 

[thetrailboss]

Vail discounting next year's pass $150 for Steven's Pass. "We sucked this year. We got your money. Our only option is to take your money again for next year."

Vail Resorts offers discounts at Stevens Pass, calling challenges ‘unique’ compared to 36 other resorts

In an acknowledgment that a season pass just isn’t getting customers what it used to, Vail Resorts has discounted next season’s Stevens Pass ski pass to $385 for customers who purchased one this season.

www.vaildaily.com

Well, I think this foreshadows how they intend to respond. Make an offer they can't refuse. And then we see the same shit next year.

 

[thetrailboss]

Fine print... response from the GM Tom on FB:

View attachment 52857

View attachment 52858

View attachment 52861



... something for NH locals to look forward too?

"Why not provide a refund? Because we provide such an awesome deal to you for buying in advance!"

 

[Smellytele]

Everyday their pr machine is pumping out bullshit. A lot disguised as media reports…

 

[kendo]

Well, I think this foreshadows how they intend to respond. Make an offer they can't refuse. And then we see the same shit next year.

Yep. On the bright side... if they continue to suck at this rate, they're on track for $85 passes in 2yrs.

 

[ThatGuy]

Rob Katz said in that podcast the only reason they wanted the small resorts near metropolitan areas was to draw people to their destination resorts. They obviously don’t care about locals or local mountains character at all. At the end of the day anyone with an epic pass is just a number in the computer and the only thing that will make them change is less numbers in the computer and less $$$ coming in.

 

[Edd]

Comment on one of Sunapee’s Instagram posts

 

[deadheadskier]

Tough luck for those in southern PA. But for those in NH, the writing is on the wall, get an other pass if you want a long season. BTW, the same probably applies to Hunter skiers too.


Why only 20% not renewing? How about 50% not renewing? It's not like they have no other options.

Agree still not a whole lot in Vail's "big picture" though.

Who knows. Just spit balling a number here. But I think the level of use of a product often correlates to level of anger in poor performance. If the average Epic Pass Holder only skis 7 days, and out of those 7 only 2 days had really poor performance; how angry are those guests going to get to move their business elsewhere?

Where as if you have a more frequent skier who uses their pass 20-30 days at NH areas and 5 to 10 of them are awful, the anger likely is higher with those folks.

Seems to me it's the diehard skier that's going to move on; not the casual 7 day a year person who still says, "Screw it, it's only $500."

 

[deadheadskier]

Rob Katz said in that podcast the only reason they wanted the small resorts near metropolitan areas was to draw people to their destination resorts. They obviously don’t care about locals or local mountains character at all. At the end of the day anyone with an epic pass is just a number in the computer and the only thing that will make them change is less numbers in the computer and less $$$ coming in.

Right. But so far since acquiring these NY and NE properties, only 7% of are heading West. Mid Atlantic is higher. I believe my friend who has connections in the data farming division at Vail said about 12% of Mid Atlantic customers head West. But the history is short so far and obviously not indicative of normal behavior due to the pandemic impact on the past few seasons.

 

[pinion]

Seems to me it's the diehard skier that's going to move on; not the casual 7 day a year person who still says, "Screw it, it's only $500."

There's a trend I see on social media - not sure if it's new skiers or casual skiers or some combination of that or something else entirely - where people reply to complaints about Vail/Epic with "we should all feel blessed to be able to ski" or "be thankful the mountains are open" or "the passes are so cheap so how could you be negative about this". Bringing new skiers to the sport is great, but if all they ever know is Vail's current level of service, especially in NE, then I feel really really bad for them. And yes, the diehards will move on and fully support better run operations.

Skiing becoming a cheapened, homogeneous product is antithetical to the history and culture of skiing in New England, and that is Reason #871 why Vail Sucks.

 

[jaytrem]

Who knows. Just spit balling a number here. But I think the level of use of a product often correlates to level of anger in poor performance. If the average Epic Pass Holder only skis 7 days, and out of those 7 only 2 days had really poor performance; how angry are those guests going to get to move their business elsewhere?

Where as if you have a more frequent skier who uses their pass 20-30 days at NH areas and 5 to 10 of them are awful, the anger likely is higher with those folks.

Seems to me it's the diehard skier that's going to move on; not the casual 7 day a year person who still says, "Screw it, it's only $500."

I don't know. I gotta think any low use skiers that got stuck in the the hour+ lines at Jack Frost might be turned off from skiing completely.

I do think Vail's recent actions show that they are trying to turn some things around. I also think the only reason they're doing such things it is because they believe they're about to lose a ton of sales. Way too much bad press that infrequent skier friends have mentioned.

 

[deadheadskier]

There's a trend I see on social media - not sure if it's new skiers or casual skiers or some combination of that or something else entirely - where people reply to complaints about Vail/Epic with "we should all feel blessed to be able to ski" or "be thankful the mountains are open" or "the passes are so cheap so how could you be negative about this". Bringing new skiers to the sport is great, but if all they ever know is Vail's current level of service, especially in NE, then I feel really really bad for them.

Skiing becoming a cheapened, homogeneous product is antithetical to the history and culture of skiing in New England, and that is Reason #871 why Vail Sucks.

Yup. And I've seen folks say, "Just go out West! It's so much better and a no brainer with the cheap pass." Um no, I ski every single weekend from about mid November to mid April and often times both days. A western trip once a season just doesn't compute for me.

 

[pinion]

Yup. And I've seen folks say, "Just go out West! It's so much better and a no brainer with the cheap pass." Um no, I ski every single weekend from about mid November to mid April and often times both days. A western trip once a season just doesn't compute for me.

Similar argument from me, but my fam does go out West once a year. Vail/Beaver Creek for many years and now DV/Park City (plus a day at Alta). But to your point, I am NOT going to suffer through 20-30 days of garbage in NE every year just to have 4 great days out West.

 

[johnl87]

i listened to ramblin rob's interview on the way down the hill early this morning. can you picture this guy working a shift with us unwashed blue collar folk?

of course no mention of the vaccine mandate driving out employees (us who already had covid), no sense of reflection on how it failed to stop widespread covid absences, and no reason why vail has so many more unfilled positions than its competitors. just a bunch of ramblin corporate speak as if he was running a chain of bistros.

also thought it was interesting how he damned the new ceo with such faint praise.

bonus drinking game: take a shot every time rob says 'ya!' in the middle of a sentence.

 

[jimmywilson69]

He's a heady skiing Brah that's why he talks like that

 

[thetrailboss]

He's a heady skiing Brah that's why he talks like that

His Epic Podcast was full of so much self-praising and new age BS that your head will explode. The only one that I think may be worse is Ski Utah's Podcast that is ass-kissing shameless promotion.